Claims that electric vehicles don’t have enough demand may be overblown.
A new study from GBK Collective, published Thursday, found that half of the more than 2,000 US car consumers they interviewed were considering either an electric or a hybrid car for their next vehicle purchase.
This far outweighs the current ownership trends found in the study. Only 14% of those surveyed already own a plug-in or hybrid vehicle of some kind. It’s another piece of evidence of a huge opportunity for EV manufacturers to home in on the needs of these green car-curious consumers.
“These are not the same kind of customers who created the initial EV market,” GBK President Jeremy Korst told Business Insider in an interview.
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“These are later adopters, and because of that, they’re not as driven by innovation or even design,” Korst said. “They have more functional needs, and they’re much more pragmatic and thinking about the total cost of ownership both in price and in effort, like, ‘how do I charge so what’s that going to take? How much time is it going to take me?’”
I’d like one not connected to a hateful, megalomaniacal egobeast.
Plenty of options besides Tesla.
And China’s about to hit the market hard. You know, if you don’t mind them scraping your data.
If the 25% tariff on Chinese EVs went away, they would flood the American market just like Honda and Toyota in the 80s. We need a cheap sedan EV, and nobody is filling that segment in the US.
Ah cheap chinese garbage. Just what I want to be driving.
Fun fact: Tesla isn’t the biggest EV maker in the world. BYD is. Americans haven’t heard of them because Trump’s 25% import tariff on Chinese EVs made them untenable to import.
American automotive companies are scared shitless of companies like BYD because they can come in like Toyota & Honda did in the 1980s and sell an EV sedan at a cheaper price than any American automaker can.
Elon even admitted it today: https://www.foxbusiness.com/fox-news-global-economy/elon-musk-says-chinese-ev-companies-will-demolish-competition-without-tariffs
I didn’t realize we had a tariff that high on Chinese EVs. It’s looking like Biden even wants to increase it https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-administration-explores-raising-tariffs-chinese-evs-wsj-2023-12-21/
I remember when Trump did his trade war on China and people were screaming bloody murder about impeding free trade, but apparently democrats are all about it too. They’re more alike than people want to admit, at least when it comes to trade.
On foreign policy in general there is little difference between Democrats and traditional Republicans. On the other hand, Trump’s only guidestar on foreign policy was how much money a country spent at his resorts.
2002 called. They want their stereotypes back.
China caught up on developing and producing quality products themselves, while many western companies lacked innovation and just payed out dividends instead of investing into the future.
I agree their capability has increased a lot, but i seems to me like most stuff I buy thats made in China is designed to fail.
They make a lot of stuff in general. Chances are if you’re looking at the label for country of origin it’s not because it’s working fine.
In general, they sell a lot of stuff that breaks fast because they have a lower price floor, so if you want to make cheap garbage, you can pay less for it in China.
If you want something perfectly decent, it’s still cheaper because of the balance of trade, but it’s not as drastic.Yeah they caught up, they didn’t get ahead.
That can be the case for some products. It should not get us to relax in hubris until it is too late to stay in competition.
Yeah, I’m not sure outsourcing so much manufacturing to a powerful, authoritarian state was such a good idea. T
Then again, the transnational corporations making the decisions only care about their investors. Supporting human rights and democratic countries was never important to them.
China can lick my nuts
Everytime ev’s come up everyone’s a fur trapper in the himalayas that needs to make pilgrimage over 500 miles every other day.
It’s not that you need 500km every day, it’s that you need 500km often enough to make the average affordable ev with a 150km range impractical. Until there is a reliable charging infrastructure in place, people need a vehicle that can accommodate their longest trip, not their average trip.
150km is the unreasonable part. The AVERAGE affordable EV, especially not Tesla, will easily do 250-300km on a charge. My ID.3 does 340km on a full charge (100% to ~10%) and I’m spending a third on “fuel” per month vs the Fiesta, even though I can’t charge at home.
Btw, I also don’t think twice about driving from Amsterdam to Disneyland Paris 2-3 times a year - that’s 550km each way easily. 2-3 charges, every 2-ish hours, depending on the season and Paris traffic.
People are just afraid to change. Right now, some cars get excellent deals to get sold. Once everyone starts wanting these, kiss those deals g’bye.
Exactly why I have a PHEV. Battery for daily driving, gas for longer trips.
Ehh more like a 90km daily commute (+10km wiggle room for errands). However, the 150km advertised range turns into 120km actual range, which in turn gets reduced by 30% in the winter. Suddenly, a new EV (which I can’t afford btw) has a range of less than what I need, meanwhile, old ones which I might afford (and are still waay more expensive than a used ICE) have nowhere near that amount of range.
people need a vehicle that can accommodate their longest trip, not their average trip.
So, a train?
Yes, we definitely need more trains, but the average person isn’t really in a position to build a rail network, so using the infrastructure currently available, cars are a necessity for most travel.
Fair, but it is a bit of a chicken and egg problem, in the sense that public transportation will only get more funding when there is a demand for it. So if people are used to being able to drive 500km in their cars, they will see no reason to push politicians for better funding. And conversely, when good public transportation exists, people will not see a <100km range as a problem.
If you think that’s bad, check out discussions about bicycling.
I’m the opposite. I don’t drive much. The furthest I usually drive is about 60 miles and that is a once a month kind of thing, I usually just drive around town. And I could even make that round trip with a low end EV.
I have a hybrid now, but if I could afford an EV, I would definitely get one.
Yeah, I have a plug in hybrid and I see that lasting me quite a while. Usually get about 50 miles all electric which covers ~90% of my typical driving. About once a month I drive about 150 miles, and twice a year I drive on a long road trip.
I have seriously considered an EV and will probably get one in the next few years but my biggest problem with them is that all of them have huge fucking tablet screens. I want a EV that has physical buttons and if you are going to use digital screens, I want it in the same layout as the traditional style. IF I have to have a tablet screen, I want it to be minimal.
I don’t want to have to use a menu to turn on the fucking windshield wipers!
Volvo XC40 Recharge has buttons for most things (volume, wipers, defrost, …) though climate is on the touchscreen which is annoying. Navigation on the touchscreen is nice. The software is a bit glitchy, though the car itself is very nice.
But I strongly agree: searching for buttons was a big part of our car search.
I would definitely consider a Volvo but it is on the more expensive end and isn’t eligible for the EV rebate in the USA. Still, it is one of the better looking EVs
Agreed completely. We love our Bolt because it’s a regular car interior with an EV engine
I have an EV, it has physical controls on stalks in the same place as a regular car for the indicators, windscreen wipers, lights, etc. You only need to use the tablet for climate controls and nav/music - all of which can be voice activated.
which EV do you have? The wiper example is just the Tesla, and I wouldn’t buy that anyways. I’d consider it if they ousted Musk
Not op but I have an ioniq 5. Controlls for where they should be on the steering wheel, buttons (or dedicated ir “buttons” for temp, defrost, etc). And buttons to trigger important menus in the screen.
Polestar 2
That is one of the best looking, from the outside. I haven’t had the chance to see inside for myself.
Tesla you press the button on the left stalk to make wipers move once, which also brings up the wiper menu on the screen to keep them on. I want more physical buttons too but it’s not terrible this way.
How about this: one press, one swipe, tap a few times and it continues relative to the rate you tap it. Perfect, no stupid tablet menu necessary.
My first-gen Chevy Volt has all the buttons. And I mean ALL the buttons. I’d say it has too many buttons, but it’s a particular quirkiness that I kind of like; the future as imagined in the '90s. Very Star Trek TNG shuttle craft aesthetic.
I’ll happily drive an ev if
- it is affordable
- it doesn’t require an online account and app to work correctly
- it isn’t an enormous truck/SUV
- it isn’t fucking hideous
- I don’t have to support Elon Musk
Too bad nobody’s making one of those.
- replacing a faulty battery wont be nearly the price of an entirely new vehicle
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If the charging infrastructure is as universal and as reliable as gas stations, so whenever the landlords want to make sure all the parking stalls have at least Level 1 charging
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What about better public transport, I’m ready to stop putting money into an “asset” that depreciates at $300 per month, while the debt jacks up interest fuck me the depreciation on a car makes the interest look like a reasonable tip to your server
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And yeah, twice, the batteries should be swappable, they can be semi-permanent but assume a 2-year replacement time with a standardized installation, fuck paying $45,000 for a really fast cellphone that stops working when the battery does and replacing the battery means ripping the glue apart and the car is never right again. They have to be AT LEAST as swappable as engines.
Well we have Nio and CATL ramping battery swap, but wouldn’t you know it… They are under tariffs… Oops
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Kia niro ev. You can get a 2019 model for ~25k, and it just looks like a normal hatchback.
Kia is also doing paywall subscription stuff. I hate this time line.
I have the nitro ev. Can definitely recommend but it’s going to be annoying when every charger only supports NACS standard in a few years though
Still too big and bulky. I want a roadster EV; something no bigger than a Miata or 350Z.
Anything larger than a midsized car sucks in the handling department, and I hate that my country has such a hard on for them.
All I want is a sporty convertable EV that looks attractive and has 350+ HP for under $30K.
Oh and find some excuse to put a manual transmission on it – or at least flappy paddles – without it being a gimmick (edit: like CVTs with their fake manual mode; fuck that noise). Then I’m sold.
There’s no such thing as a manual transmission with an EV though…? The purpose of a transmission is to make best use of the power band of a combustion engine, an issue that EVs don’t suffer as they are able to provide maximum torque at zero RPM. At the end of the day, all you’re ever gonna get is some gimmicky fake manual mode.
Fine I can do without shifting. (TBH I don’t miss it that much anyway in EVs since the instant torque makes up for it.) Just give me my pocket-sized roadster EV, please.
Fair enough! But yeah, definitely let me know when there’s an EV that meets your other criteria, I’ll be right there in line with you to get one, haha
Honestly, I would kill for an EV. I’m ready to setup the charging station already since I have a 240v 50a run in my garage. I even do electrical work and could install it myself.
As the article notes though, it’s way too expensive for me to consider at the moment. I drive maybe 100 miles a week but it’s usually a lot less so I would be a perfect candidate.
However, a $7k or less older ICE vehicle does what I need. I can buy a fuck-ton of gas for $43k… Including the added maintenance. I’m also hesitant to buy an older EV due to battery deterioration and not knowing if I will have to pay a ton to replace the batteries.
I had a 2014 Nissan Leaf. I bought it used in 2016 for $11k. I replaced the tires once. And filled the window cleaner fluid a few times. That’s about it. I charged it off a 110v in my garage. I debated getting the quicker charger installed, but seriously never even once would it have made a difference. My driving was about 300 miles a week. One of the few really solid purchases in my life that I have no regrets about.
Yeah I was similar with a used bolt for 14k. There are some deals if you are patient and look around.
I has an almost identical story, except the battery went from having mild degradation to suddenly erroring out the vehicle an putting it in turtle mode. (I believe we had 11/14 bars left.). Ended up spending almost $10k on a new battery. Honestly, it still has been a good deal for us over the course of the last 8 years, but not as great as we hoped. At least we have a new battery that should last a long time.
Honestly, I would kill for an EV
Why because it’s the new shiny? I bet you buy the new iPhone every year.
However, a $7k or less older ICE vehicle does what I need.
Right but you gotta have the new shiny right?
FOMO?
EVs being new and shiny, as well as that being the only reason they want one, are things you inserted into your comment, not something the person you responded to even implied.
Bad press or just right-wingers crying because of their vroom vroom vehicles?
rent free
Not rent free when it’s paid up in full at the polls.
I don’t have a car now but if I were to buy one I would give serious thought to an EV. The biggest problem I would face is that I live on the third floor of a brownstone in DC. I have a parking space but no way to plug it in at night.
You can charge off a normal wall outlet too, but those can also be hard to come by depending on your parking situation.
There are schemes in the works to put standardized public outlets on streetlamp posts and utility poles. That will be nice when that’s working.
And if you have a dedicated parking spot it’s not a big stretch to install an outlet for it.
Some neighbors even have installed one on a post in front of their house while they park on the street.
There will come a time when having a parking space without a charger will be unthinkable, and it’s coming soon in my view.
Based on what? There has been no plan proposed by anyone to even start doing that. It’s not economical for commercial players to add that level of infrastructure.
Having an EV be an option is very much a privilege of having a secure SFDH.
Not true. There are schemes in the works to put standardized public outlets on streetlamp posts and utility poles.
Then BYO charging cord and plug in.
When EVs and plug in hybrids are a significant enough portion of the road fleet, people will not want to rent a park without one, and building owners will be forced to either install them, or have their parking building sit empty.
That’s great, but I’m talking about people making car buying decisions today.
Cheaper and not a Tesla.
And not Chinese chabuduo malware.
Order your QVKZFAST REAL ELECTRIC BATTERY CAR STREET HIGHWAY ROAD LONGRANGE CHARGE CHARGEABLE COMFORT today!
Citroën Ë-C3?
The tech is still a bit immature. The price is still way too high. The grid is still so dirty (in my area) that only the small EVs offer much of carbon output reduction over the compact ICE that I drive now. The user experience of a bunch of touchscreens is horseshit and I will not buy anything without buttons.
All those things change in time and I will almost certainly buy an EV when they do. Mostly I am annoyed that the US EV fleet is being reduced to fuck off huge 7k lb monster trucks.
Theres also the fact that they’re all cloud connected now.
I was very eager to buy a non-Tesla EV but now they’re all following the same playbook.
Hate to tell you this but quite a few new cars are too, electric or not.
Ugh yeah, thankfully I got a very old, decent condition SUV before COVID that I can to ride into the ground.
It’s hard to spend 50k on a new car when my current car is functional.
Hybrids are the clear choice. The new Prius prime is so nice. And of course the rav4 prime is awesome too.
Can recommend the Prime. Used to get free charging at work which doubled my fuel economy. Even without plugging it in, it has been a great car.
The primes are enticing, but not 20k more expensive enticing. The escape PHEV is near perfect (same beautiful transmission as Toyota) but is FWD only. You need to go up to the lincoln corsair grand touring to get AWD and then suddenly it’s 50k. wtf? Why will no one sell a sub 50k AWD PHEV?
Why will no one sell a sub 50k AWD PHEV?
I mean you’re asking a lot for 50k.
Escape = (Engine/Hybrid) + Battery(PVEH)
Rav4 Hybrid = (Engine/Hybrid) + Extra Motors/Diff(AWD)But your asking for,
(Engine/Hybrid) + Battery(PVEH) + Extra Motors/Diff(AWD)That’s a lot of equipment.
I’m saying that the prime is not twice the car of the hybrid because it has a wall plug. It’s the huge motors and huge battery. There’s a middle ground.
Mitsubishi Outlander
Primary Vehicle -> Hybrid
Secondary Vehicle -> Full Electric with charger at homeTwo cars and a house? Not for my generation.
True that, which is probably why EV isn’t ‘taking off’ as expected.
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The range issue is really limited to commuter cars only.
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Not many people can afford to have a dedicated commuter car, so they have their primary as a commuter car.
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Only those where 2 people need to commute, the commuter car needs to be dirt cheap (which EV’s currently are not)
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These days, how many households have 2 commuters anyway with all the work-from-home being more common place.
EV’s won’t take off unless
1 - The range issue is solved, either through longer ranges, or faster charging at more available locations leading to people replacing their primary vehicle
2 - EV’s become cheap enough that it’s a no-brainer to use those as the secondary commuter vehicles.
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This is what my wife and I do except we just charge from a standard external outlet. It’s very slow, but more than enough for our needs.
I bought a crv hybrid. I also work from home and don’t really drive much anyway.
Pretty sure the upcharge wisconsin charges to register a hybrid cost me more than the gas I’ve put in it per year.
It makes no sense to target hybrid cars unless you’re also targeting other efficient ICE vehicles. My state used to seperate hybrid from plug in hybrid, but the culture war BS changed that.
A registration upcharge for a hybrid? What kind of nonsense is that? I got federal and provincial rebates for my plug-in hybrid.
Rebate scope was heavily reduced in the past month and suddenly there’s stories about EV and PHEV demand being lower? Horse shit. They’re just more expensive now.
Dealerships also have a party to play in tanking overall sales of EVs with the direction Tesla took and for is trying to take, cutting out dealerships all together.
Fuck, I’d love to make my next car hybrid or electric, but I sure as fuck can’t afford one, even used currently.
Tax breaks don’t do shit for someone on disability, so I’m fucked in that regard.
I thought I heard they were changing them to be more like rebates? If not, yeah that’s really silly.
2024 they changed the $7500 to a rebate, but there are only a few models that qualify
