Gretchen Whitmer responds to calls by some Democrats to vote ā€˜uncommittedā€™ in Michiganā€™s primary on Tuesday

Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, pushed back on calls to not vote for Joe Biden over his handling of the Israel-Gaza conflict, saying on Sunday that could help Trump get re-elected.

ā€œItā€™s important not to lose sight of the fact that any vote thatā€™s not cast for Joe Biden supports a second Trump term,ā€ she said on Sunday during an interview on CNNā€™s State of the Union. ā€œA second Trump term would be devastating. Not just on fundamental rights, not just on our democracy here at home, but also when it comes to foreign policy. This was a man who promoted a Muslim ban.ā€

Whitmer, who is a co-chair of Bidenā€™s 2024 campaign, also said she wasnā€™t sure what to expect when it came to the protest vote.

Rashida Tlaib, a Democrat who is the only Palestinian-American serving in Congress, urged Democrats last week to vote ā€œuncommittedā€ in Michiganā€™s 27 February primary.

  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    1- you donā€™t know who will win. You donā€™t even know if theyā€™ll live long enough to win. This isnā€™t entirely an age thing- thereā€™s enough assholes who absolutely would pull the trigger here. (And Iā€™m not even sure assassinating Trump is immoral. Thatā€™s how fucked yo this all is.

    Either presidency is still a hypothetical. Period.

    2- TRUMP BEING WORSE DOES NOT JUSTIFY SUPPORTING GENOCIDE.

    Seriously. When people protest bidenā€™s (and most every other politicianā€™s) support of genocideā€¦ it isnā€™t about the election. ITS ABOUT THE GENOCIDE.

    Stop making excuses. Youā€™re defending genocide. Youā€™re complicit in genocide.

    • Lopen's Left Arm@sh.itjust.works
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      9 months ago

      No, this is not hypothetical. Either Biden will win, or Trump will. You can protest and throw all the tantrums you like, thatā€™s what the primary is for.

      Come November, if you donā€™t vote for Biden, youā€™re as guilty as the most ardent MAGA supporter in letting fascism take power.

      • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Incorrect.

        The purpose of a primary is meant to select the best candidate possible.

        We can argue if a guy whose consistently thrown unconditional support to a genocidal regime is in fact that, but the primary is not to ā€œthrow tantrumsā€

        And yes, I am pissed that my govenement is currently sending money and weapons to a genocidal regime. I am more than pissed. I expect better of my govnerment.

        But being incensed at genocideā€¦ isnā€™t a tantrum.

        Canā€¦ you do me a favor? Can you just agree that genocide is bad? Or is that too much?

        • Lopen's Left Arm@sh.itjust.works
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          9 months ago

          Whatever you want to call it, you go act out in the primary all you like, vote for Barney the dinosaur for all I care. But when it comes to November, you put on your big kid pants, suck it up, and vote for Biden, otherwise youā€™re as guilty as any other MAGA fanatic.

          • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Soā€¦.

            We canā€™t agree that genocide is bad?

            Once again: you are talking about a possible future- a very likely future. Protesting the genocide of Gazaā€™s isnā€™t about what might happen in the future. The protests are about what is happening now.

            And what our current, active government is doing to support it. ā€œFirst they came for the Gazans, and I did nothing because Biden was better than Trumpā€ is not something I want to express later.

            Our government is complicit in genocide. Period. It doesnā€™t matter if the current president is better than the alternative. Itā€™s still complicit in genocide- and because it ostensibly represents me- I have an obligation to tell it to knock it off.

            You, on the other hand, are using your right to free speech to enable and defend genocide.

            • Lopen's Left Arm@sh.itjust.works
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              9 months ago

              You asked me for a favor, and Iā€™m not inclined to do you any favors until you commit to voting for Biden in the general. After that, we can talk.

              • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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                9 months ago

                Why does saying genocide is bad require a favor for you to do?

                • Lopen's Left Arm@sh.itjust.works
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                  9 months ago

                  Canā€¦ you do me a favor? Can you just agree that genocide is bad?

                  That was the other person, not be. I donā€™t do favors for fascist supporters, of which Iā€™m now convinced they are one.

              • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                ā€œDo what I tell you and then we can talkā€

                you sound like a republican. You canā€™t even agree that genocide is bad and you expect me to actually agree to do what you say as if youā€™re some divinely appointed prophet? Fuck. That.

                • Lopen's Left Arm@sh.itjust.works
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                  9 months ago

                  Iā€™m not doing you any favors while thereā€™s still some question as to whether or not youā€™re supporting fascism. If you refuse to vote for Biden in the general, thatā€™s exactly what youā€™re doing. So hereā€™s the opportunity to clear the air about how youā€™re going to vote.

                  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    Youā€™re not gonna admit that genocide is bad because you donā€™t believe it is. Iā€™m voting for Biden.

                  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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                    9 months ago

                    Youā€™re concerned Iā€™m maybe supporting fascismā€¦. Fascists just love their genocide too.

                    So maybe since youā€™re so concerned about fascism- check the goddam mirror.

                    And once again: the protests arenā€™t about the goddamn election. Itā€™s about the American government supporting genocide, and speaking against that.

                    Oh, another thing fascists do: silence dissent. They also love loyalty and purity tests.

                    You donā€™t have to do me any favors you donā€™t want to do. But seriously; you want to persuade peopleā€¦ this isnā€™t the way.

    • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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      9 months ago

      Hey bud, how about you not scream at someone for something they didnā€™t say? Making up strawmen and screaming at them isnā€™t going to convince anyone youre worth listening to, let alone convince them to actually to listen to anything you have to say.

      • Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        strawmen

        Thereā€™s a lot of that going around. A lot of us are justifiably pissed off at the Biden admin for funneling our tax dollars into a genocideā€¦ but calling that out is just being met with a wave of ā€œif you donā€™t vote Biden, youā€™re supporting Trump, which is even worse!ā€ whichā€¦ no shit? We can be pissed off at Biden and simultaneously still willing to vote for him over Orange Hitler Those things arenā€™t mutually exclusive.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          Then pick someone who says something like that to argue with. The person above is just screaming at someone because of something that no one in this thread said.

      • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Hey bud.

        How about you actually read what said, instead of repeating those ā€œBiden Goodā€ macros you think are persuasive.

        The problem here is that you seem to think any criticism of Biden is unwarranted because he is not as bad as Trump hypothetically will be.

        And yes. At this point in time, it is hypothetical. Nobody here can predict whether or not Trump will win. Or if Biden will win.

        Which is all entirely beside the point that people are protesting our current government - not our possible future governmentā€™s support of something most of us find objectionable.

        Saying ā€œdonā€™t protest genocide because Trump will be worseā€ is a lazy excuse; and fundamentally defending genocide.

        Do you support genocide? Do you think whatā€™s happening in Gaza is good?

        Do you think Palestinians should be eradicated as a culture and a people?

        Because that, right here, right now, is what you are supporting.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          Why do you support female genital mutilation? Huh how come youā€™re not responding? Is it because you love mutilating childrenā€™s genitals that much? Why do you just love to torture children and maim them for life?

          Oh hey look, itā€™s not fun to argue with someone who argued against things you didnā€™t say.

          Reread the part where i said not to put words in peopleā€™s mouths and try again asshole.

          • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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            9 months ago

            Thatā€™s amusing.

            Yes Iā€™m apposed to genital mutilation. Itā€™s easy to say.

            Youā€™re the one trying to make this about some thing itā€™s not. People are protesting our current governmentā€™s policy towards Israel. That is to say, theyā€™re protesting our current governmentā€™s support of genocide.

            This has nothing at all to do with the upcoming election; and telling people to shut up about it, or Trump might win (or implying it) is a good sign that maybe people find the current policy deeply unpopular.

            And yes, what you are doing is in fact defending genocide. So which of us is an asshole here?

            • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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              9 months ago

              And yes, what you are doing is in fact defending genocide. So which of us is an asshole here?

              No, Iā€™m pointing out that arguing with strawmen and putting words in peopleā€™s mouths is dumb and childish, and like I said, you are, for repeatedly using strawman arguments. Try and not put words in peopleā€™s mouths. Itā€™s really really not complicated for most people over the age of 12.

              • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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                9 months ago

                saying ā€œgenocide is badā€ is not a strawman.

                Saying itā€™s not about the election is not a strawman.

                Saying arguments that Biden is better than trump is a cop out is not a strawman.

                Saying people- myself included- are protesting the war in gaza is not about the election is a strawman.

                I am not putting up a scarecrow to argue against. Nor am I putting up a sock puppet. Iā€™m saying making the genocide in Gaza about the election is stupid. youā€™re (royal you) are telling me to shut up and vote for Biden. youā€™re attempting to change the topic of discussion into defending being upset at Biden. youā€™re getting pissed because people are upset about genocide. news flash: most reasonable people are upset by genocide.

                • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                  9 months ago

                  youā€™re (royal you) are telling me to shut up and vote for Biden.

                  No, Iā€™m telling you to shut up and stop putting words in peoples mouths, and yet there you go again, claiming that I said anything about Biden or voting or genocide.

                  Literally all Iā€™ve said this entire thread is to stop putting words in peopleā€™s mouths and you just keep crying about me silencing your views on Gaza. Express your views, express them to people who say the opposite, so far thatā€™s not the people youā€™ve been replying to.