I have to disagree on this. The Linux Desktop (once installed) is ready for “normal” users and has been so for years; and not just theoretically, I personally have installed Linux on several PCs and the only maintenance I have to do is reinstalling it when the person buys a new PC.
I think this is true for 80% of the users out there, who basically use their PC as a “click here to open browser” device (and viewing some photos etc.). However, ChromeOS does that even better than Linux admitably.
The problem is with the 20% Windows power-users / gamers, for whom Linux is not a suitable replacement as it works differently and is easy to break if you have only dangerous half-knowledge. While these people certainly would be capable of learning Linux, I don’t really see that happening as they often show open hostility to any system that is doing things differently than what they are used to… and in a sense that is understandable as it is a sunk cost fallacy of having spend considerable time to learn how Windows operates.
I highly doubt that Linux will be ever able to cater to those 20%, even if there are certainly some areas that could be improved. But those users will just find some other issue to nitpick about…
I didn’t say Linux isn’t better, I just said it’s definitely not easy enough for the average person.
But either way, it being a better daily driver is specific to your workflow. What about gaming? Audio production work? Livestreaming? Office work with the standard applications? Nah, Windows is better for those at least because of the software availability. Be nuanced.
What about gaming? Audio production work? Livestreaming? Office work with the standard applications?
I’m a bit suprised, because those are all things that work incredibly good. What really sucks from my experience is video editing, mechanical CAD and VR games.
Those too, but also can’t play some AAA games, use standard apps like Microsoft Excel, use a DAW besides bitwig, ardour, audacity. livestreaming, GoXLR and Elgato aren’t supported yet
How is that a “standard app”? There are hundreds of office suits, hundreds of databases and thousands of general purpose numerical computation programs used by professionals. This is just parroting Microsoft propaganda.
use a DAW besides bitwig, ardour, audacity.
Except Zrythm, LMMS, Reaper, Tracktion, ReNoise, Radium, Waveform, Mixbus (which is Ardour I guess) and a ton of interactive music programming systems.
GoXLR and Elgato aren’t supported yet
Both aren’t alone in their field. GoXLR is even only unsupported because of the incompetence of the manufacturer, had they used standard protocols not only would they work on Linux but also MacOS, Android and iOS. Older Elgato cards worked, but newer don’t seem to, but there is enough competition that does.
AFAIK an average person uses MS Word and MS Excel at work. So GNU/Linux desktop may need to wait until people switch to Google Docs, which can be worse lock-in, but at least, it works on a GNU/Linux desktop.
I agree with @poVoq@lemmy.ml
What a Linux desktop needs is a user, who’s able to think and who not assumes that it has to work the way he is used to from Windows. Many are simply unwilling to learn and therefore reject Linux.
I don’t think this is the problem. GNU/Linux desktop are more than capable to provide a Windows-like UX with KDE + AppImage.
The problem in my personal opinion is that there’s bugs everywhere. All desktops are written in memory-unsafe languages and keep on reinventing the same wheels over and over again, reintroducing subtle bugs.
oh boy … this “memory-unsafe”-argument again 🤦
Even with a Windows looking desktop UI and usage of AppImages, it’s still no Windows! There are no .exe-Files for drivers and games. There is no Microsoft account you need to login to. There is no “installer” who ask for the path you want to install your program.
What’s wrong with the argument that playing compiler in your head is both a waste of energy and a sure way to write bugs? Aren’t you tired of unexpected resource usage, stuff that should work that reaches hard-to-reproduce edge-cases, and kids bypassing your screensaver.
There are no .exe-Files for drivers and games.
Really? Then what is Wine/NDISWrapper for? I’ve used Windows games and drivers in the past on my GNU/Linux system, and some of them sure used .exe extension.
There is no Microsoft account you need to login to.
Isn’t that a good thing? Also many people still use older windows where cloud login doesn’t exist. Does that mean it’s not Windows?
There is no “installer” who ask for the path you want to install your program.
Yet GNU defined the standard –prefix to choose where to install your software (make --prefix/Program\ Files/foobar).
I mean sure there’s no equivalent of the registry, Aero/Metro UI toolkit, Cortana, or centralized Windows store (except on Ubuntu with snap). But who said we had to have the bad bits? ;)
appimage is easy for me now, but it took me forever 2 years ago to figure out that --no-sandbox addition needed and i still am annoyed that I often have a problem getting the icon on a menu or panel.
i think we should be open to criticism so that we can improve Linux and thereby starve the BigTech beast. If you have weeds in your garden, don’t make excuses for them, yank them out or allow them to grow in more appropriate places.
I’ve used AppImages a bunch but i’ve never heard about “–no-sandbox” so far. Do you know of apps that won’t run without it?
i still am annoyed that I often have a problem getting the icon on a menu or panel.
I’ve personally had good luck with AppImageLauncher in the past, but lately i just run apps from terminal. There’s also a bunch of other solutions. Let me know what worked for you :)
i think we should be open to criticism so that we can improve Linux and thereby starve the BigTech beast.
100% agree.
If you have weeds in your garden, don’t make excuses for them
Some weeds are really good for your garden’s ecosystem in fact, but that’s off-topic :)
Since electron was apgraded or fixed, that appendage is no longer needed. I read that all of those appimages were made using electron.
I did have AppImageLauncher and used it a first, but forgot about it. No longer have it.
The Linux Desktop (once installed) is ready for “normal” users and has been so for years
As someone who supports many novice GNU/Linux users, i think this is true, but there’s many papercuts along the way. Every desktop environment is broken in subtle ways: the closest to a stable/consistent whole i GNOME but even it sometimes has services eating up resources unexpectedly, and is hard for users to tweak (too much reliance on extensions for what should be basic settings which are much easier to discover for users).
I’m not saying Windows is better: on Windows the “basic” experience works well but as soon as you start installing software, stuff will break in random ways until you have to reinstall from scratch.
That must be a specific issue with the microSD card reader that you use. Mounting MicroSD cards on Linux has been possible with supported hardware since they first arrived on the market.
Works wonderfully well for me. Must be an issue either with the distro you’re using or with the reader itself, which isn’t compatible or doesn’t use standards somehow.
I have to disagree on this. The Linux Desktop (once installed) is ready for “normal” users and has been so for years; and not just theoretically, I personally have installed Linux on several PCs and the only maintenance I have to do is reinstalling it when the person buys a new PC.
I think this is true for 80% of the users out there, who basically use their PC as a “click here to open browser” device (and viewing some photos etc.). However, ChromeOS does that even better than Linux admitably.
The problem is with the 20% Windows power-users / gamers, for whom Linux is not a suitable replacement as it works differently and is easy to break if you have only dangerous half-knowledge. While these people certainly would be capable of learning Linux, I don’t really see that happening as they often show open hostility to any system that is doing things differently than what they are used to… and in a sense that is understandable as it is a sunk cost fallacy of having spend considerable time to learn how Windows operates.
I highly doubt that Linux will be ever able to cater to those 20%, even if there are certainly some areas that could be improved. But those users will just find some other issue to nitpick about…
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Exception from the rule ;) As I wrote, they would be certainly able to switch to Linux if they would give it a serious effort.
Me too. I think Linux still has way too many usability issues for it to be mainstream right now, as well.
deleted by creator
I didn’t say Linux isn’t better, I just said it’s definitely not easy enough for the average person.
But either way, it being a better daily driver is specific to your workflow. What about gaming? Audio production work? Livestreaming? Office work with the standard applications? Nah, Windows is better for those at least because of the software availability. Be nuanced.
deleted by creator
I’m a bit suprised, because those are all things that work incredibly good. What really sucks from my experience is video editing, mechanical CAD and VR games.
Those too, but also can’t play some AAA games, use standard apps like Microsoft Excel, use a DAW besides bitwig, ardour, audacity. livestreaming, GoXLR and Elgato aren’t supported yet
some
How is that a “standard app”? There are hundreds of office suits, hundreds of databases and thousands of general purpose numerical computation programs used by professionals. This is just parroting Microsoft propaganda.
Except Zrythm, LMMS, Reaper, Tracktion, ReNoise, Radium, Waveform, Mixbus (which is Ardour I guess) and a ton of interactive music programming systems.
Both aren’t alone in their field. GoXLR is even only unsupported because of the incompetence of the manufacturer, had they used standard protocols not only would they work on Linux but also MacOS, Android and iOS. Older Elgato cards worked, but newer don’t seem to, but there is enough competition that does.
I think id rather eat a brick than continue this discussion goodbye
AFAIK an average person uses MS Word and MS Excel at work. So GNU/Linux desktop may need to wait until people switch to Google Docs, which can be worse lock-in, but at least, it works on a GNU/Linux desktop.
I agree with @poVoq@lemmy.ml
What a Linux desktop needs is a user, who’s able to think and who not assumes that it has to work the way he is used to from Windows. Many are simply unwilling to learn and therefore reject Linux.
I don’t think this is the problem. GNU/Linux desktop are more than capable to provide a Windows-like UX with KDE + AppImage.
The problem in my personal opinion is that there’s bugs everywhere. All desktops are written in memory-unsafe languages and keep on reinventing the same wheels over and over again, reintroducing subtle bugs.
oh boy … this “memory-unsafe”-argument again 🤦
Even with a Windows looking desktop UI and usage of AppImages, it’s still no Windows! There are no .exe-Files for drivers and games. There is no Microsoft account you need to login to. There is no “installer” who ask for the path you want to install your program.
What’s wrong with the argument that playing compiler in your head is both a waste of energy and a sure way to write bugs? Aren’t you tired of unexpected resource usage, stuff that should work that reaches hard-to-reproduce edge-cases, and kids bypassing your screensaver.
Really? Then what is Wine/NDISWrapper for? I’ve used Windows games and drivers in the past on my GNU/Linux system, and some of them sure used .exe extension.
Isn’t that a good thing? Also many people still use older windows where cloud login doesn’t exist. Does that mean it’s not Windows?
Yet GNU defined the standard –prefix to choose where to install your software (
make --prefix /Program\ Files/foobar).I mean sure there’s no equivalent of the registry, Aero/Metro UI toolkit, Cortana, or centralized Windows store (except on Ubuntu with snap). But who said we had to have the bad bits? ;)
appimage is easy for me now, but it took me forever 2 years ago to figure out that --no-sandbox addition needed and i still am annoyed that I often have a problem getting the icon on a menu or panel.
i think we should be open to criticism so that we can improve Linux and thereby starve the BigTech beast. If you have weeds in your garden, don’t make excuses for them, yank them out or allow them to grow in more appropriate places.
I’ve used AppImages a bunch but i’ve never heard about “–no-sandbox” so far. Do you know of apps that won’t run without it?
I’ve personally had good luck with AppImageLauncher in the past, but lately i just run apps from terminal. There’s also a bunch of other solutions. Let me know what worked for you :)
100% agree.
Some weeds are really good for your garden’s ecosystem in fact, but that’s off-topic :)
Since electron was apgraded or fixed, that appendage is no longer needed. I read that all of those appimages were made using electron. I did have AppImageLauncher and used it a first, but forgot about it. No longer have it.
As someone who supports many novice GNU/Linux users, i think this is true, but there’s many papercuts along the way. Every desktop environment is broken in subtle ways: the closest to a stable/consistent whole i GNOME but even it sometimes has services eating up resources unexpectedly, and is hard for users to tweak (too much reliance on extensions for what should be basic settings which are much easier to discover for users).
I’m not saying Windows is better: on Windows the “basic” experience works well but as soon as you start installing software, stuff will break in random ways until you have to reinstall from scratch.
deleted by creator
That must be a specific issue with the microSD card reader that you use. Mounting MicroSD cards on Linux has been possible with supported hardware since they first arrived on the market.
Works wonderfully well for me. Must be an issue either with the distro you’re using or with the reader itself, which isn’t compatible or doesn’t use standards somehow.
my comp cant mount sd card with its internal hardware either. maybe some specific drivers are missing.