The self fellatiating “superior” pacifists in here bragging that they would never think of doing something so horrible as to defend themselves violently from a group actively trying to murder you or your fellow citizens and kidnap your children are a special sort of disconnexted from reality.
Abusers will continue to push what they can get away with and you are the types that would tell women to stay with their husbands that beat them and children to accept being raped because to fight back might make a mess of your peaceful idea of reality.
Also this isn’t boring you nonce.
Lmao the environmentalist take was my favorite. Some people are unbelievably sheltered.
Atechnologicallyproficientdystopia
I hate Putin and any Russian war sympathizer as much as the next guy, but…
My grandfather got a white phosphorus burn during WW2. He told me it was the most terrible pain he ever felt in his entire life, you can’t extinguish it, and he wouldn’t wish it on his worst enemy. I heard the same kind of stories from people who got napalm burns in Vietnam.
I’m pretty sure thermite munitions are in the same category of basically inhumane weapons regardless of the circumstances, right up there with NBCs, mines, napalm and white phosphorus, and I can’t say I fully side with the Ukrainians on this one. I mean I understand why they do it, but I also remember my grandfather’s leg and the horror of what he told me.
Russia is welcome to withdraw from its genocidal, imperialist, unilateral invasion at any time.
“it’s not a war crime if we’re defending ourselves”
Do you put “sitting in the comfort of the first world trying to be the moral arbiter of a people desperately defending themselves from a fascist war of extermination” as one of your hobbies on your dating profile?
Edit: This reply was so ridiculous that I actually completely forgot to mention that this isn’t a war crime under international law.
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isn’t technically a war crime
You’re acting like this is some sort of situation that brushes up against being a war crime but falls just short because of some small, pedantic technicality, but no. As you can plainly read, this isn’t even close to a war crime under international law, which is the entire way a war crime is defined, because it’s, you know, a crime. You can’t just hallucinate up international conventions on war and then act all offended when someone points out they don’t exist.
This isn’t just “not technically a war crime”; this is unambiguously not a war crime and was never in any danger of even approximating one.
But it doesn’t seem fair…/s
Yes.
Do you consider castration, rape, and other systematic tortures horrific and to be fought back against with every tooth and claw available?
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“if their government is bad”
Russia has long since moved to sending contract soldiers into Ukraine. They either support Putin’s war on principle or because of greed from Russia’s ballooning sign-up bonuses. I don’t honestly care what happens to people who voluntarily signed up to commit a genocide when it’s them or the innocent people protecting themselves and everything they love from being genocided.
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Sticking your head in the sand, a time-tested tactic.
When someone is being genocided they get a lot of leeway in how they defend themselves.
if there is ever an exception there is always an exception
I mean, our money is funding this war instead of our own health care, so yeah, I think our people have every right to criticize if they want to.
And besides, it wasn’t that long ago that people were saying these same things about Iraq and Afghanistan, and we later learned our money was grossly misused and corruption rampant.
Stories have already circulated about corruption in the Zelensky government.
Wow, stories have circulated you say? /s
Unlike Iraq and Afghanistan, which were immoral American misadventures, this is a Russian misadventure, and supporting the Ukrainians is pushing back against aggression.
I don’t know why you added the sarcasm tag, because it’s true.
There has been extensive reporting of corruption in Zelensky’s government, which always seems to be the case when the US is involved. The only difference is this time we’ve swapped out Saddam Hussein and Hamid Karzai for a white gentleman who’s easier to market to the masses.
If you had anything real to say you’d be linking to it or even talking about specific examples. Instead it’s “there’s stories”, “there’s been reporting”.
Want to provide sources for those claims boss? I need to see this “extensive reporting”.
Yeah, Russia says a lot, and also pays right wing news a hefty sum in order to report their bullshit.
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The “right” to criticize was never infringed on, the criticism is just being ridiculed by the public.
I get that, and that’s fine.
We’re a warmongering country and it stands to reason that anyone criticizing the war of the week will not be looked upon favorably. I get it.
It’s also an armchair ethicist with absolutely no skin in the game wagging their finger at an underdog, outmanned, and outgunned country defending itself from a blatant foreign invasion.
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It’s not even a war crime. It’s only a war crime specifically if it’s used where civilians are.
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It’s also a war crime if it’s a weapon inflicting excessively injurious or having indiscriminate effects. Like flamethrowers, landmines and blinding lased weapons.
All of these weapons are banned under Geneva Convention, and by using them in a war you would be committing a war crime
Are you being stupid because you’re just that stupid or Russia is paying you to be stupid?, at least the money is a good excuse
Why are you so pressed? What part of what I said is somehow in support of Russia?
Do you then not think that U.S. using Agent Orange wouldnt count as a war crime? or any flamethrower use in WW1? or White Phosphorus?
What would using a banned weapon during war be called if not a war crime?
Clearly these weapons are banned because they are overly cruel, meaning it gets the job too well done.
Last time I checked if someone used banned substances that counts as a crime. And if someone were to break the same rules for war, it would qualify as a crime during wartime (war crime for short).
But no you just think that every hint of criticism against anyone good means that you’re against that fully? Have you heard of the word ‘nuance’ before?
Honestly the Ukrainian brutality has been pretty constrained over time compared to the civil war. Russia started full 1865.
As an American, I gotta say, this is probably a sentiment we ourselves shouldn’t be getting behind. War crimes are committed in our name with our weapons every single day.
No, I definitely think we should be getting behind this sentiment. The US’ invasion of Vietnam was the same brand of bullshit that Russia is doing to Ukraine, and the Vietnamese had every right to do what it took to US troops to defend their homeland. The illegal invasion of Iraq caused the needless deaths of hundreds of thousands and was perpetrated knowing that its premise was objectively false. The US right now is militarily supporting genocide in Gaza.
What’s your thought process going to be when the war comes to the US?
I haven’t been able to get my hands on a copy of your fever dream geopolitical fanfiction to understand how the war comes to the US, so I don’t feel comfortable answering yet.
History is littered with fallen empires.
Assume Russia, China, and others decide to make war on the US and attack our country directly.
What is your thought process going to be on war crimes and chemical weapons?
Did a writer’s position come open at Bethesda and you’re canvassing people for material to use in the interview?
LoL wut? Nobody is going to bring war to American soil.
“They started it!” is not a valid reason to commit a war crime.
- That’s a ridiculous strawman.
- Good thing this isn’t a war crime.
Not alone, it isn’t, but there’s much more to take into account. Russia’s invasion was illegal to begin with, and they have committed numerous war crimes along the way. Most importantly (to me), Ukraine isn’t using this to attack, but as defense on their own soil.
These factors, along with others, make it a morally complex issue. Honestly, I don’t know where I stand.
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Breaking news: fascist oligarch produces paper-thin lies to justify a war of aggression. Local Lemmy user learns what a firehose of falsehoods is. This and more news coming up at 11.
After seeing countless attacks on Ukrainian civilians, I really don’t care what happens to the invading forces anymore. Remove them from Ukrainian territory however you want, I really don’t care.
It does sound borderline war crime, but then again the US buried thousands of Iraqi soldiers alive in the first gulf war, but our lawyers also did the mental gymnastics to justify it not being one beforehand so presumably they have some justification so its just barely legal. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-09-12-mn-2959-story.html
That being said, its not like Russia is being super careful about its rules of engagement.
Don’t want to get war crimed, don’t do war crimes first.
No device made to kill a human is humane. Russia started this. They can stop this whenever they want and go back to their shitty ice-hell.
No device made to kill a human is humane
Yes but some are more inhumane than others. That’s why the United Nations Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons exists, which lists the following protocols:
- Non-detectable fragments: weapons specially designed to shatter into tiny pieces, which aren’t detectable in the human body. Examples are fragmented bullets or projectiles filled with broken glass.
- Mines, booby traps, and other devices: This includes anti-personnel mines, which are mines specially designed to target humans rather than tanks.
- Incendiary weapons: Weapons that cause fires aren’t permitted for use on on civilian populations or in forested areas.
- Blinding lasers: Laser weapons specifically designed to cause permanent blindness.
- Explosive remnants of war: Parties that have used cluster bombs in combat are required to help clear any unexploded remains.
Thermite is a protocol 3 weapon. So again, while I understand that Ukraine is desperate to defend itself, using that stuff is not great.
The sad thing is that Putin doesn’t care about war crimes. He will sacrifice as many soldiers or civilians as necessary to get his way.
The sad thing is that, years after this war is over, we’ll probably learn our money and weapons were misused, just as we did with Iraq and Afghanistan.
People will remind you of that, and it won’t matter. You’ll still support whatever war we’re involved in, and all because the news network you watch insists that you should.
You forgot to add “Wake up sheeple!!!”
Oh yes.
Put words in my mouth because what I’m saying makes you uncomfortable. That’s a tried and true way to make someone feel better about their own cognitive dissonance.
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Unfortunately, that’s true of virtually everyone throughout the world. We’re all immersed in propaganda of one kind or another.
That’s true, but this same process has repeated itself often enough over the last 40 years that we can point to a few consistent historical patterns, I think.
The last few decades are the most memorable (and frustrating, since I think we really should know better by now), but I think one could argue that we’ve had pretty much the same attitude towards war throughout recorded history.
That’s fair.
The only real opposition the US has ever seen to war was in the 60’s, when the media was portraying our wars as they actually are and kids were being forced to decide between fighting those wars or serving jail time.
Almost makes you wish the draft would make a comeback. At least that way the average American wouldn’t be able to hide from the effects of our foreign policy.
What if the Russians didn’t start a war?
What if Ukraine didn’t start the fire?
Edit: guys it’s a reference to the song, I’m not trying to start a conspiracy.
Impossible. Are you meaning to suggest that it was always burning since the world’s been turning?
Perhaps. Some would say they didn’t light it, but they tried to fight it.
(Thank you for getting the reference instead of just downvoting)
Billy Joel started the fire.
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These aren’t war crimes under international law. But I guess that small little fact doesn’t really fit with your bad-faith argument.
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That’s awful! Please keep doing that.
Agreed, maybe the images being shared in Russia media make these fuckers think before going there
Could anyone tell me why the fuck this isn’t a war crime?
Thats the fun part, it is.
No it isnt. Incendiary weapons are legal if not used on civilians and couple of other rules.
Whew, for a second there I thought someone was burning people alive in an illegal fashion.
This is gruesome for sure. That said, most ways of killing people in war aren’t good ways to go. Killing is going to cause suffering.
Ideally we wouldn’t kill. And then if we do it hopefully it’s quick and doesn’t prolong suffering. And then if we’re pushed to the point that it’s us or them hopefully it’s them.
People that are trying to murder and kidnap civilians from another country? Why do you like abusers so much? Want to be like one some day?
Soldiers are just people forced into this shit, the people that could deserve this are the higher ranks, but they are too busy being safe and cozy
The Russians presently in Ukraine are contract soldiers that voluntarily enlisted for the invasion.
Are you saying that if I force my soldiers to commit genocide against a population then that population is not allowed to defend itself?
Soldiers can drop their weapons or frag their officers at any time
Yeah that’s also easier said than done. Try saying you think that you don’t like pizza very much at a Mets game and people will want to attack you.
You will get shot for dissenting, even just suggesting it. They want like minded.
I agree that they can make a choice but it’s also not easy to go against the general movement of a group. Or else we in the west would have changed more as well.
That the fun part, your are wrong
Thats not fun at all
It’s always good to read different opinions about topics like that.
This is not boring tho, make them screens more, maybe they learn to not rape others
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War is well and truly hell
For Ukraine? Yes. For Russia? They can leave literally whenever they want, and the Russians in Ukraine right now signed up to be there. The nanosecond the last Russian soldier leaves Ukraine and stops firing into their soil, this war is over. I don’t remember the bylaw for Hell where I can just walk out whenever the hellfire becomes too hot.
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The blood of invaders mixed with ash will make beautiful fertiliser for sunflowers.
If I were to storm into your house and start raping and killing your family (not always in that order too, what fun!), are you going to be as polite as you are to the Russki invaders?
“Hey maybe we shouldn’t be committing war crimes against them” yes yes very polite wow
Ehh, fuck’em. they can leave,surrender, or die but I have zero qualms with Ukraine defending their country.
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“Can you be a bit more environmentally conscious while you fend off the extermination of your culture, country, family, friends, and people? Thaaaaanks.”
Are you really giving them crap for not thinking of mother nature as they defend their homes from invaders?
Sadly, Ukraine has to think about their survival for the next year, not the next decades.
Heck yeah chemical warfare. When is Agent Orange making a comeback
This is not chemical warfare…
The only one committing chemical warfare in Ukraine right now is Russia. You probably wouldn’t know about that though.
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no need, there’s not enough foliage in Ukranian forests. plus winter is coming, so…
now let’s talk about nerve gas
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Oh look a comment making stuff up by reaching into the unknown. What a shock.
Like you?
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