The share of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents who believe that President Joe Biden’s 2020 election win was not legitimate has ticked back up, according to a new CNN poll fielded throughout July. All told, 69% of Republicans and Republican-leaners say Biden’s win was not legitimate, up from 63% earlier this year and through last fall, even as there is no evidence of election fraud that would have altered the outcome of the contest.
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69% of republicans say Biden’s win in 2020 is illegitimate. Democrats point to Russian interference in Trump’s 2016 election. Republicans claim Obama’s 2012 and 2008 win is illegitimate because he was born in Kenya (gee, even if that was true, McCain was born in Panama!). Democrats object to Bush’s 2004 win certification due to Diebold messing with machines in Ohio. Democrats claim Bush’s 2000 win was the result of Supreme court interference. Republicans try to overturn Clinton’s 1996 win with impeachment over a sexual affair. Republicans actually accept Clinton’s 1992 win.
The excuses may not compare, but I find it troubling that it has been 31 years since the loosing party actually accepted a loss as legitimate.
Indeed, they’re not comparable and yet here you are making the comparison anyway.
Al Gore legitimately beat GWB in 2000.
Starting to think these habitual losers are tired of losing
Stop picking a loser party run by losers who have loser ideas, maybe?
Apples and oranges. The difference is that in only one instance did the losing candidate refuse to concede and peacefully transfer power to the winner.
Ok but what if, now hear me out… the Democrats were correct about 2016 and 2000?
Plus this is the first I’ve heard of the 2004 issue vs hundreds of times hearing about 2016 and 2000.
With hundreds of millions of people in a country, there is a zero percent chance everybody accepts the truth, but unless I just missed something really big the 2004 election was not seriously contested. And no I’m not some kid who wasn’t around to hear about it. I was a news consuming adult even back then.
Feels like you were stretching to make a both sides argument.
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Trump used 2004 as a starting point for Jan 6th, then added a riot. In order to stop the counting, you need a house and senate member to object to a particular vote (I’m actually in the house district of the guy who objected in 2020, and campaigned for his opponent). The concerns over vote switching were so bad in 2004 that most of the democratic states switched over to having paper trails. From what I remember, Ohio polling was constantly showing a Bush loss and the CEO of Diebold was running around saying “No, those are our machines, Bush will win”, and then Bush did.
not that there’s like mountains of evidence to prove that or anything /s
Ok but what if, now hear me out… the Democrats were correct about 2016 and 2000?
Dunno about 2000, I was 4 years old, but 2016 was the typical action movie “evil foreign hackers hijacking our great 'Murrican democracy” thing, only told by Democrats. That is, as somebody living in Russia I can’t take this seriously.
Russian interference was proven to be true.
Not to mention, if you want to talk about a comically evil villain, invading Ukraine was a comically evil villain thing to do.
Proven by whom?
Not to mention, if you want to talk about a comically evil villain, invading Ukraine was a comically evil villain thing to do.
And how do you imagine that comical villain managing a much more complex operation?
Russian interference was proven in the Mueller report.
Bad faith trolls like to scream “the Mueller report exhonerated Trump” which is wrong. It concluded that Russian interference was real, and there was evidence of collision with the Trump campaign, but insufficient evidence to charge him of the crime.
Russia’s #1 export is misinformation troll farms. It’s really decided to make itself the shitstain of the entire planet.
NRA takes foreign money. NRA takes American donors money. NRA does gun education. NRA does political ads for Trump. It is illegal for foreign money to pay for political ads. NRA takes the Russian money, uses it to do gun education. NRA take the American donor’s money that was going to gun education and puts it towards Trump ads. Perfectly legal money laundering, but still Russian interference.
It’s not about interference, it’s about that interference being sufficient to call Trump’s victory a result of Russian interference. And if it’s logical OR of all inputs, then I’m sure you can call Biden’s victory the same.
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Because everyone knows Russian citizens know everything their Putzin leader is up to. Too funny.
I felt like trying to say Clinton’s impeachment was the R’s not accepting the legitimacy of his election was a stretch also. Seems OP is trying to make the facts fit his point.
I vividly remember the 2004 voting machine issues. It was the first general election with widespread use of computerized voting software, in the wake of the 2000 election disaster, and there was a lot of evidence that the machines could be tampered with quite easily. I’m not sure if there is real evidence that they were actually tampered with, but the fact the machines were not open source and demonstrably falsifiable is in itself alarming.
I don’t recall any talk about the 2016 election being illegitimate. The results were horrifying obviously, and we were shocked the polls were so wrong, but actual fraud? I don’t think so.
Don’t believe polling on either side, get out and vote.
These people are just entitled babies. They know Trump didn’t win, but it feels good feelings to pretend that he did so back to the social media that reinforces that.
We need to stop caring about their delusional indulgence in non-reality and start getting the country back on track. Never vote for a single Republican again. I don’t care if you’re a moderate even - there is no safe Republican candidate for a long while, if ever.
They are aggressively stupid. They would rather take the whole ship down with them, than admit they might be wrong.
It’s hard to think of anything that “gets me the most” about the last 6-8 years but this is up there. If you pin them down by the ears and make them answer, most will say they would rather have King Trump than President Biden.
Ask them, what about after King Trump dies? What if a democrat manages to take the throne and get all the power he had? Watch them sputter.
It’s so disturbing.
They are attracted to power. If a democrat managed to seize the throne from the Trump royal family, then that democrat is powerful and thus now respectable, as long as they maintain the monarchy.
Monarchy is the origin and the goal of conservatism. Total hierarchy, everyone in their proper place from top to bottom.
THEY KNOW TRUMP LOST
It’s charitable to call them babies. They’re liars.
How do they want to change elections? Are they asking for more election security? NO. They’re calling to raise the voting age to 25.
They know they can’t win a fair election. They don’t want a fair election. They will throw out Democracy for power. They won’t ever admit it, so they lie, and they recognize their in-group when they see other liars.
I choose to believe this means 30% of them are dead now.
Exactly. Also helps me to think gen Z is coming up and replacing all those dead Republicans.
The laws and changes to the US in Biden’s time as a career politician have taken mine and other’s right to vote away. The Demopublicans are one party working towards the same goals the elitists set for them. No matter which “party” wins we the people lose.
So, 69% of Republicans are traitors to the Republic. That’s what I’m hearing.
How many of those 70% knows it’s a lie, but went along with it. There’s a reason why I support rejecting Republicans and I would go as far as not funding red states along with boycotting businesses residing from those states.
That would backfire spectacularly. We must always keep in mind that Republican policies keep their citizens in a state of disinformation and dilapidation. If your life is already miserable, denied education and resources so as to never escape what few jobs are left, you’ll latch onto anyone promising salvation. That is the whole reason we saw J6ers go as far as they did.
The long road has the best chances of keeping the country in one piece. Dispelling falsehoods piece by piece, enacting programs that modernize not just infrastructure but local economies as well. Bring the success of the coasts inward to lands exploited and abandoned by corporations and their elected goons. As difficult as it sounds, we’re looking at another reconstruction era for those kneecapped by decades of Republican control.
I also support the rising tides raise all boats approach. There is so much hate for these poor, white, uneducated, disenfranchised swaths of middle America. It is too easy to just say they deserve what they get, instead of dragging them (kicking and screaming I might add) into the 21st century. Even if many of them are a lost cause, we shouldn’t be so keen on throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I see no realistic solution that does not include fighting Republicans for the hearts and minds of the average working class American. This is why Democrats continue to struggle even with overwhelming statistical advantages. The corporatist wing of the Democrats continue to block the kind of New Deal, Social Democracy, Keystone policies that actually win elections.
You change the material conditions of millions of people, and see how fast they jump on board. Most people cannot see the forest through the trees when they are drowning in the inevitability of automation and skilled labor killing their livelihood. We need to force the Democrats to take bold action to better the lives of the whole country, or we will suffer the consequences of political inaction. It starts with the local first. The bottom up, grassroots approach can work. It just takes time, determination, and a desire to refocus the agenda away from culture war naval gazing and onto real world solutions.
Keep fighting the good fight!
Does no one remember 2016-2020? The whole time people said Trumps win was a sham.
Are those people traitors too?
I’m not saying Biden’s win was bullshit, but I swear no one can remember past 30 minutes ago
It’s not the same. Most people calling the 2016 election a sham will admit that Trump did technically win by the rules as written, but also think that those rules are bullshit because they allowed a multi-million person majority to be shut out in favor of a malevolent moron. The people saying Biden lost are saying he literally cheated and that there’s a conspiracy of thousands of government employees collaborating to break the rules and subvert the will of the people; that the multi-million majority literally doesn’t exist. This is just as disingenuous as comparing the top secret documents that Trump hid to the ones that Biden and Pence handed over immediately on request.
did ANY of those people try a coup?
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Oh no people in a park. Not at all the same as trying to overturn an election.
Also I remember when trumpets stormed the wa govs mansion.
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large portion? dude it was a park. and not even the whole park. ohh scary.
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Some of ‘em did burn cars and buildings, I assume they would’ve fallen in line for storming Capitol Hill too.
Never underestimate those who will get violent because their preferred candidate didn’t win.
One side did and one side you’re just saying that the could have.
What’s the difference between those two?
Never said there wasn’t a difference lol, nor would I.
But you did and now you’re straight up lying.
…uh, okay?
On another note: What a username
👏 Golf Clap 👏
blame the left all you want it was trump and his supporters who attempted a coup.
…why the fuck would I blame ‘the left’ for Trump’s attempted coup?
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And coming dangerously close to our elected officials while chanting they wanted to hang people with the gallows they built outside. And remember people died there. And there’s tons of evidence trump led it, why do you think he’s getting charged for it.
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An angry person smashing the window of a Starbucks is not a fucking threat to the Republic, dude.
People burning down cars very well could be, if some lunatic spent some time brainwashing ‘em.
“If. Could be.”
Didn’t happen though…
…again, I never said it did. Do you have poor reading comprehension?
If wishes were fishes I could feed the world, buddy. There’s a reason that left wing agitation is a threat to windows and right wing agitation is a threat to the Republic. It’s the difference between an insurrectionist traitor and an angry child.
Yes, that reason is that Republicans let a lunatic come into power, and he was able to consolidate his insane voterbase and stir ‘em up into a frenzy.
The small insignificant difference between the two is that those people didn’t try to break into congress and kill the people who disagreed
To be fair though, a few Dem supporters do scream quite a bit about how much they’d love to kill all conservatives. There were quite a few of those crazies demanding his head during the post-election drama too.
Not saying that Dem voters did actually do that, but I wouldn’t put it past some of ‘em either.
A few anti-Republican individuals (not necessarily even Democrats) saying some shit is nothing compared to leading members of the Republican party calling for violence. The shit they say is literally the position of the party itself.
Again, I did say there was a difference. Also, these were most certainly Democrats.
Always has been.
It’s a variety of topics I find denial of reality to be increasing. Climate change science, including the history of how long ago people like Carl Sagan made it a widespread topic. Medical science with pandemics, nonsensical views on how vaccines work. Wild views about how windmills work and interact with the environment.
The really shocking thing here is that 31% of Republicans are still aware of reality enough to understand that Biden won legitimately.
Or they’re just embarrassed to admit what they really think.
Are they capable of shame? Seems like they revel in the absolute worst behavior possible.
Those 30% will still vote R, even after knowing that they have been lied to by the republicans.
When republicans voters call others “cucks”, you know it’s all a projection.
They’ve largely stopped using “cuck” as an insult since the high mark of their movement involved a guy wearin’ horns.
Doesn’t help that they are allowing Trump to run around the country to continue to say he was cheated and that the election was stolen. They are literally waiting until next year to even put him on trial.
Plenty of time for him to cause as much harm as possible.
Like 70% also believe angels are real…
Apparently decades of No Child Left Behind and removing critical thinking from public education did what republicans wanted it to do
You’re assuming they actually believe what they are saying and are arguing in good faith. That hasn’t been in the Republican playbook since at least Nixon.
Don’t worry, they’re fixing this by burning books. We’ll be back to the 50’s in no time!
Not to defend No Child Left Behind but it was only a 2002 law, the majority of these people are too old to have been in school since its passage.
But if it wasn’t for that, republicans wouldn’t be getting elected still…
Obviously I didn’t mean the only people who believe this shit is the kids from No Child, mostly because red states were already doing it on a state level.
But there’s enough of them that it’s keeping republicans in office where they wouldn’t be without it.
Very very few problems have a single cause, again, I thought that was so obvious it wouldn’t need to be explained. But here we are…
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Yes but that change affected anyone in school at the time as well. No Child Left Behind touched the schooling of people up to the age of 38. That’s roughly half of Americans. You would need to remove people not of voting age, but the impact is still huge.
It was repealed & replaced in 2015 anyway so it was only in effect for 13 years and over half of states had waivers for it by then anyway. Once again not defending the state of public education or laws passed affecting it, just making sure we all know the facts.
Normalize questioning random ideas about politics people toss out
You act like it’s limited to the younger generations of Republicans.
Knowing them, not much of a shock.
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Does anyone have a chart that shows the amount of Republicans vs the Democrats over the years by registered voters? I don’t see anyone saying how many have changed up or down in a clear chart. https://ballotpedia.org/Partisan_affiliations_of_registered_voters
That Russian propaganda really coming back strong. They need Trump back in to get some kind of upper hand in Ukraine.
They need Trump back in to get some kind of upper hand in Ukraine.
It was news to me how this is also another talking point they fully support. I had a family member bring it up while I was back in Wisconsin last month… mind boggling. They believe the ENTIRE Russia/Ukraine war would be non-existent if he was still in office.
In a way, they’re not wrong, but it’s because Trump would’ve sold them out in a heartbeat to Putin, not because he’s some sort of peacemaker or anything.
The brain worms have stirred awake in the summer heat
They’re conditioned now to think any win by a member of the Democratic party is illegitimate. It’s going to be decades before we get back to anything resembling normal.
The echo chamber effect isolates left and right from each other. When 95% of your peer group shares your political affiliation, it strains credibility that the other 5% could actually wield any political power.
This is a problem on both sides of the aisle. We’re all abandoning the center.
This is a problem on both sides of the aisle
no, only republicans have chosen to divorce themselves from reality and create their own, including sorry attempts at “both sides” arguments
Just in case anyone isn’t aware, any “both sides” argument is always a republican talking point. One side of the aisle didn’t try to overthrow the government and install a dictator, both sides are NOT the same.
Where did I suggest both sides are the same?
Acknowledging that neither is willing to bend toward the other’s position means the two sides have radically different philosophies, not that they are “the same”.
The fact that both sides are talking past each other rather than actually engaging each other does not at all mean that both sides are the same. It merely means that neither is interested in compromise or cooperation with the other.
I’m pretty sure you actually agree with my point. Surely, you are not willing to compromise and cooperate with people who have tried to overthrow the government and install a dictator. Surely you aren’t arguing that these traitorous tyrants are somehow willing to cooperate and compromise either.
Where did I suggest both sides are the same?
In the very last line of your previous comment
This is a problem on both sides of the aisle
I’ll be honest, I’m not going to address any other parts of your comment because I just didn’t read the rest of it. That first line told me all I needed to know, as soon as you were called out on your blatant right-wing talking points you immediately go to “I didn’t say that” while it’s still plainly visible in your previous comment, moving the goal posts as needed around loose semantics so you can point and say “the exact words I said are…” When we all know damn well what you meant.
No amount of word twisting or mental gymnastics will ever make this a problem on “both sides of the aisle” because there’s absolutely no comparison between the shortfalls of the left and the outright atrocities of the right and if you think you can draw any comparison between the two you obviously haven’t been paying any attention to American politics at all over the past 7 years and any argument you may have to the contrary is uninformed and invalid. Practice your trolling elsewhere, you’re not going to fool anyone here.Pointing out that Nazis don’t want to compromise with Jews, and Jews don’t want to compromise with Nazis is not a “both sides are the same” argument. One side is clearly in the right, and the other side is clearly in the wrong. They aren’t at all the same.
The “echo chamber” point I was making is that in our modern public discourse, the “Jews” are only talking to other Jews, and the “Nazis” are only listening to other Nazis. Neither side is actually engaging the other, and the political spectrum is becoming absurdly polarized as a result.
So you say that the Jews should talk with the Nazis so that they maybe tone down the whole Endlösung thing a bit?
I’m saying that the algorithms that just show us the content we want to see have killed political discourse. I’m saying that when we kick, ban, block, ignore, don’t-even-read, and otherwise censor ideas we don’t like, we are actively contributing to the polarization of the political spectrum. We are complicit in creating the echo chambers.
When a Nazi walks up to a synagogue and is turned away at the door, a Nazi walks away. When he is “engaged”, he will walk away a former Nazi, or he will be running, or he will be carried out.
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Depends on where you define the center. If you draw it based on political ideology, the whole of American politics is right of center, and only the most radical fringe groups are on the left. Doesn’t seem particularly useful to draw the line there, but you do you, boo.
If you draw it democratically, putting an equal number of contemporary American voters on each side of the line, the center is becoming rather sparse as everyone gravitates toward the sides.
💀
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A big “if” that is…
