If I am going to need to run, or even take stairs briskly, I need a bra. Or it’s going to sting.
I take off mine the moment I step through the door after work. Necessary for outings and exercise yes, but still wouldn’t say I “like” wearing them.
I don’t specifically remember that episode of the late, great, Late Show with Craig Ferguson, but EVERY SINGLE APPEARANCE of the people’s princess was magical.
They played off each other so masterfully and both were just their honest selves.
She gave him a set of novelty dried kangaroo testicles on one visit that he regifted to a woman explorer with MS who was going to North Pole.
Craig was, and still is, the master of 1 on 1 interviews.
Conan comes close in his podcast, but doesn’t quite reach the same level
Most late shows the start of the interview meant bedtime.
For Craig, it was usually the highlight of the show.
Conan’s podcast is fantastic in that regard. I never watched his show much for a variety of reasons, but I can’t get enough of his podcast.
Craig’s podcast is nearly the same level as his talk show, but it’s really dependent upon the guest. Diedrich Bader was quite entertaining.
They kinda swapped roles on the podcast circuit 😀
Craig is going for deep conversations and Conan is completely off the hook.
I get the point, at the same time that ain’t just any man, that’s Craig Ferguson and he’s amazing too. Not saying he can’t make mistakes, but he’s an absolute legend in late night.
just goes to show that even good men are convinced of their assumptions about women
Or somebody having a fun interesting conversation will be pilloried by Gen Z/Alpha.
He was injecting that to make sure a question that many people would have would be addressed by Carrie.
Lemmy: Durr…. White Man Bad
when did I say he did something bad?
is there a fediverse version of /r/abrathatfits ?
There are not enough women in the fediverse to maintain femme-centric communities.
Most of the ones I used to be subscribed to shut down due to being abandoned/unmodded. And they turned out that way because of harassment.
It’s a huge issue that no one will address. Mostly because they will be harassed.
It sucks.
There are not enough women in the fediverse to maintain femme-centric communities.
Or maybe they rather mask a man / gender neutral. Internet is not a friendly place to have girl oriented conversations. I made the mistake to be open about my gender with this account and the odacity of people is astonishing.
That’s what I mean.
And it should not be this way.
The fediverse vehemently defends & will happily accommodate trans folk. That’s fantastic! But they’ll be openly hostile to cis women?
It’s baffling.
Makes me think that Lemmy is not actually as progressive as they are always claiming to be.
Wow, I had no idea it was like that here, that’s terrible :(
Yeah… it really is.
That, unfortunately, is why I will never suggest Lemmy to people and why it will never be a viable option for most. Maybe that will change when the absolute batshit hostility stops, but considering all the communities lost… nah.
That’s horrible.
I want to say we should start our own instance for feminists and kick anyone that acts like that. But I’m not sure what that would even look like or if it would gain traction.
I mean, it would probably look kinda similar to blahaj.zone. With a dedicated admin team, I could see it working.
My instance is welcoming to feminists. You’re welcome to create a community on the topic. I will not hesitate to kick out the jerks.
I think it may be worth a shot to retry. There are trans and furry communities (which are smaller and similarly harassed populations) that seem to be thriving just fine. It’s just important to consider what instance they are formed on. Something like blahaj.zone?
The issue is that women should be free to discuss women’s issues without being harassed. And sometimes those issues include men. That’s when the harassment starts.
Hell, there was an article posted when I first joined about women-only taxi services and I went in to comment my excitement and support! Only to be greeted with some of the most vile comments and insincere, shitty discussion I’d seen in a loooong time.
I’m not ““tough”” enough to moderate my own community that would inevitably put both it & myself as a target of harassment. Not going to risk putting myself through that. I’m stressed enough as it is.
The issue is that women should be free to discuss women’s issues without being harassed. And sometimes those issues include men. That’s when the harassment starts.
Yeah I don’t really know what to do about that. That’s the state of things right now and it is always going to be a fight to move the bar on harassment. It used to be slapped/pinched butts and generally forced servitude.
I’m not ““tough”” enough to moderate my own community that would inevitably put both it & myself as a target of harassment. Not going to risk putting myself through that. I’m stressed enough.
Yeah, ain’t saying it has to be you but it unfortunately has to be someone for the space to exist. I’m not the right person either…but a space is necessary to allow for meaningful discussion and people to see and hear about those experiences and perspectives. I’m saying that because those trans and furry communities exist it should be possible for people to make a feminine space here on lemmy besides femcel memes.
I know for a fact that I’m not the only woman who has gone to say something, then deleted it because that element seems strong here.
I’ll say that of the space on lemmy where I’ve seen women’s issues discussed, the place I’ve felt safest about it is blahaj, but I am not gonna try and coopt their space. They really deserve to have a space somewhere. I’m glad they’ve got one here.
In the meantime, most of the women I’ve run into on lemmy feel uncomfortable making waves in the spaces where those people are, but we tend to skew older, so while it’s sad, at least we’re used to keeping quiet.
E; some pretty gross comments in this thread alone. If those negative and ignorant comments were higher than this one, and I saw them first, I wouldn’t have made this comment either.
We need a safe space, but most of the women I know on here don’t have the time or energy to moderate it. And there’s so few of us, it feels like it’s not worth the effort anyway.
It used to be slapped/pinched butts and generally forced servitude.
I get what you’re saying here, but these statements really minimize the issue.
If a non-white person came here with a concern about hostility in spaces on Lemmy, I sincerely hope the response would not be as dismissive as “yeah, it’s always been a problem. That’s just how it is. Used to be slavery and slurs. You have it so easy on the internet compared to those days!” Not saying it’s a one-to-one comparison to your statement, but it’s an issue that someone doesn’t feel safe talking about their unique experiences in a space that touts itself as progressive.
I see trans folks come here and have been accommodated fantasticly in nearly all communities! It’s so wonderful to see! And I love seeing them talk about issues that often stem from cis folk who simply don’t understand their struggles. Hell, I do not weigh-in opinions in trans communities (other than to give support) because I am not trans, and I do not feel I have the right to insert myself into those discussions.
As far as “be the change you want to see”, I absolutely understand that many folks have the view of “if you don’t have the intention to change things, then stop complaining”, and I get it. I do. But I want to complain in order, at the very least, get this issue noticed.
I understand that I cannot expect others to facilitate change for me, but, as stated before, I am not a person who is mentally strong enough to do so. My wish is for someone with stronger mental fortitude to take the issue seriously and help where I am unable to do so. That’s my wish.
I’m a man, but I’ve been on the internet for a while. It literally always happens. This isn’t a Lemmy issue. It’s an internet issue. I assume it’s because people are mostly anonymous, but anywhere that has men and women, if the thread gets popular enough men will join in. Some of those men will be assholes who make themselves offended by the fact women are discussing men.
As long as you can’t verify accounts are actually women, this issue will persist. There’s not a good solution besides just having good moderators who deal with all the bullshit, but that’s hard to ask from someone for free.
The only choice is probably to make what you want to see, and then hope for the best but prepare for the worst, or accept it’s not going to exist. You can either let them win by letting harassment shut down communities or deal with them. I’m not saying you should force yourself to deal with the harassment though, because I’m sure it’s awful.
14 year olds will always roam the internet
That’s a very dismissive statement, and I’m sure that Lemmy isn’t exclusively 14-year olds. Demographicly, it’s populated with grown men who should know better.
“There are no people here so I tell people not to come here.”
Do you see the issue?
That is clearly not why they are telling people not to come here
What is it instead? (And yes obviously what I said is a grotesquely exaggerated version of the situation as I understand it.)
I invite you to read the comments on any post mentioning feminism (in a community not specifically about feminism) and tell me if you’d, in good conscience, invite your female friends over here. I love lemmy, but ngl, when it comes to gender issues, this site is a shithole for the most part
Sure, I suppose. And that state of affairs won’t change if more women who might be able to put up some resistance don’t join. Maybe not your 14 year old cousin who’s in the middle of a major depressive episode but it’s not like all women will have a psychotic break when they are confronted with idiots. I can deal with it fine and I’m not exactly a paramount of mental health.
So can I, and that’s why you and I are here. But “come into this space that’s actively hostile and help make it a little bit less so” isn’t exactly a great pitch. The decentralized nature certainly helps, the problem varies drastically from instance to instance
So can I, and that’s why you and I are here. But “come into this space that’s actively hostile and help make it a little bit less so” isn’t exactly a great pitch. The decentralized nature certainly helps, the problem varies drastically from instance to instance
I’m a dude. Can I help?
Yes. Always.
The easiest way is to shut down blatent sexism you see around in posts and comments. I wouldn’t even be aggressive about it. Just a “hey, that’s not cool” and downvote.
Problem is, a lot of folks are “jokingly” sexist, while also only kinda joking? Either way, I think there’s a line, but it’s going to be different for everyone, and I’m definitely not sure that I’m the one who gets to draw it. But when women are seeing openly gross posts about women, it is very off-putting and will cause them to shun a community.
Thanks. That makes total sense. I’m pretty grossed out by most tropes so my tolerance for what’s “just joking” is minimal. I believe I do what you suggest IRL. My 8 yr old son does too. There’s a great Ted talk called feminism is a man’s problem or something that reshaped my perspective many years ago - we have to use our privileges to upstand bc only haves can give power, have nots can’t just manifest it. In any hierarchical dichotomy. I try to make space in work meetings and help people feel comfortable speaking and telling those with the privilege to be comfortable to stfu sometimes. I think the difficult part for some men (I know how those words sound together!) is reconciling wanting to help but not knowing how to ask whether it’s welcome and they fear it’ll be construed as offensive. Perhaps bc society allows boys will be boys, and they’re never taught how to communicate boundaries.
Thank you for making space in meetings. Thank you for all of it, but especially that.
It’s difficult to have faith in your own voice when it’s consistently drowned out - especially in those subtle ways it happens in meetings.
Early in my career, I worked with a man who would consistently refer back to a woman who had been interrupted. He always made it seem organic and I don’t think most of the men even realized it was happening. But the women noticed the pattern. I know I’m not the only woman who learned to be more comfortable advocating for myself, thanks to him.
Thanks for this. And for doing your best for us. And for helping keep your son out of that group.
I’ll add that, as much as it sucks, there seems to be this thing where the kind of men who love attacking women, when confronted with a man saying to stop, will (in person, online it still happens but less so) completely back down. I think it’s because (and I could be completely wrong but this is my theory) most of them are cowards.
Bullies love to attack those they believe are weak. Most of your run-of-the-mill sexist assholes believe all women are weaker than men.
It’s such a shame because so many of the things that harm men are things that women’s rights people also want to help with.
You don’t have am answer, so I’ll tell you what I’ve been told; that all we can do is put ourselves in front of the harassment. If it starts happening, call them out. Yeah, you might catch some shit for it, but it’s not something that normally happens to you or me most likely.
For example, I frequently play a game called Squad. It’s a light mil-Sim, and as you can imagine there are a lot of very annoying misogynistic men. If a woman speaks and people start being annoying, I’ll try to step in and take the heat instead. It’s not a great solution, but the goal is to not let them think everyone is accepting of it, and maybe let the woman (or other higher pitched voice person) just play the game. I’d rather be the target for once instead of the same people always being the target.
Sadly, some men need to hear it from other men that they need to treat women as just people, not as a different thing.
I don’t think women would want you running their women’s community though. That’s something they need to do on their own probably.
If I may:
- pick a small instance (mine fits the bill) or host your own (a bit of sysadmin skills required)
- start a local-only community
- spread the word
While growing up, it can always be opened up for test runs to see if moderation efforts are justified to keep it open permanently.
Main downside: all users members have to be on the same lemmy instance, at least in the beginning.
There’s also a potential problem of my instance not fitting because of I myself am a man.
My sister likes wearing them (not an assumption on my part; she has expressed liking bras a lot), but I can imagine that it’s more freeing, as a trans person, to do so than not doing so.
Yeah, i got over it after a year or two personally though
could i get some more pixels
Found one here on Facebook https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4821962037877759&vanity=nerdsjustwannahavefun&slug=d41d8cd9
I’m a man and I would have been curious to hear the audience response, but my job isn’t hosting a talk show. I wouldn’t be surprised if Oprah jumped in.
Legit wouldn’t be surprised if he saw the obvious answer coming and thought he’d give her a chance to make it funnier and more memorable
I’ve been called nasty shit for setting up friends for similar joke enhancements by people not familiar with us, I bet pros do it too
Absolutely - I’m not familiar with this host but Dave Letterman used to butt in all the time. Sometimes he made ridiculous objections and challenges, to create opportunities for bouncing back and forth. When guests got that (Teri Garr, for example) it was always fun to watch them interact. Some others (like Cher) who didn’t get it just thought he was an asshole.
My ex would wear bras even though it seemed like she didn’t have to.
Her warehouse work attire was loose black shirts with band art on them, so I thought it would camouflage any nipple silhouette… 🤷 still a mystery to me, but it seemed she was worried about the gaze of others.
she said hold on a sec not stfu you mAaAnNn!
If I told a woman to shut the fuck up and told her it was because it’s a “man topic” would that be ok too? Or does sexism only work one way?
If you asked the men in the audience a question about a personal, not social, issue, and a woman host tried to answer, you’d be entirely right in telling her to hold her damn horses, you weren’t asking her.
but … but we’re supposed to be oppressed! they’re trying to kill us all!
IT’S SO HARD FOR A MAN TO LIVE IN A WOMAN’S WORLD !!!
CHAOS DRAGONS
I mean if you were asking a group “Do you find briefs keep your balls in line”, and a woman started talking over everyone, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to say “sorry this question is only for people with testicles.”.
From other comments it seems like the context is they know each other and it’s not really like that. More so because it’s not a broad topic, it’s a question about personal experience, shushing someone trying to weigh in on how other people must feel about something they’re only speculating on is reasonable.
You’ll notice Carrie didn’t say stfu she just said “wait a second”
Power imbalances exist in our society, such that women on the whole are the oppressed, and men the oppressors.
Therefore, the same situation is not equitable, depending on who is in control.
Craig and CBS are the patriarchy and in control, and Carrie is the resistance. She is permitted to rise up (in small or large part) against the patriarchy, because the power imbalance existed then as it does now.
So no, it’s not okay for you to tell women to shut the fuck up. If anything, they might listen if you listened.
I’ve never oppressed anyone, I’m a native so I know about oppression but it comes from your men and women towards ours
I mean, this is like having a discussion about reservations in a room full of natives, but the only people speaking are white
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I’d like to think that in real life I’d still call you an ass and probably a sealion.
She was talking to the women in the audience. He tried to talk over all the women in the audience and answer the question in their place. She rightly told him to stop.
Male or female, answering a question that has nothing to do with you and talking over the people it does have something to do with in order to do so is not okay. I would think that as a Native you’d understand that, given how often people still do it to y’all even today.
I don’t insult people at all cause I’m an adult
Riiiiight
Your sexism is one directional, yes.
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Ok. Look at the context, buddy. You’re going on the attack because a woman asked a question directed at only the women in the room and people approved her silencing a man trying to answer.
And I’m the toxic one. Whatever…
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funny you call people toxic and hateful when we can feel your spittle landing on our unfortunate faces just by reading your comments.
Then don’t wear them?
If I don’t wear a bra my nipples will show prominently through nearly every one of my tops though
Not to mention that for large-busted women, it’s even more uncomfortable to go without any support. My partner hates bras but is always wearing one (even in the privacy of our home) because otherwise her boobs get sore.
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I wouldn’t complain but I can see why you might want some light armor
I’m all for breastplate being part of daily fashion
Welcome to the club? My buddy T-dogis like Mr glass nipples big deal. This is the same argument why woman can’t go topless but men can.
Your buddy’s boobs probably aren’t sexualized like women’s boobs are. It’s not just nipples. And there are plenty of other reasons that women wear bras: lift, shape, and believe it or not, even comfort for some of us who are pretty large.
Doesn’t this loop back around to saying one does like wearing them then?
Do I like wearing clothes, no. But I wear them to prevent sunburn, cover places that may be deemed sexual exposure, and cover my insecurities. So if someone asked me if I like wearing clothes in public, I suppose my answer is no, but yes. The period where men wore boxers over boxer briefs or just briefs showed that many men aren’t worried about wearing underwear for support.
I guess I just wish my boobs were smaller.
Lol you don’t know where I work. It just seems cultural and self imposed. I can’t think of any male friend who cares what a woman wears. Maybe a few religious whack jobs out there idk.
Not really socially acceptable in many parts of the world.
In solidarity, I’m going to start wearing latex shorts that clearly outline my pen…and I’m arrested immediately.
Either sexuality is taboo or it’s not. Unfortunately, it is still taboo.
Yes, so normal, yet so taboo. I’ll write letters to you while you’re in jail ;)
A big salty tear. Stand up for what you believe in otherwise life isn’t worth living.
That’s not an option for everyone. Not everyone is ready to be the difference, to face the social shunning, bullying, gossip, disgusted or lascivious looks or, in some countries, the danger of being charged for a crime. Mostly people just want to continue with their lives - that are worth living to them for other reasons, often just for the life itself - they have only one. And we’re talking about such a silly natural thing as a nipple. I do appreciate every brave individual that is ready to break social norms.
Nothing has ever been willing given. Someone had to sacrifice or taken it by Force.
Yes, I think you’re right. And not everyone is ready to sacrifice themselves, that’s only natural.
I think many don’t wear them, while at home.
My gf doesn’t really unless there’s a top she wants to wear that requires it. 99% of the time she isn’t wearing one.
And 100 percent of the time she is fine?
