Former President Trump’s decision to skip the first Republican presidential primary debate is fueling Republican angst that his rivals will have little opportunity to catch up to him in the polls.

  • paddirn@lemmy.worldEnglish
    101·
    10 months ago

    “We let this monster of our own creation rage out of control for 8 years, and he’s still out of control!”

    Edit: Also, the Party that tried to enable him to short circuit the democratic process and attempt a violent coup is suddenly upset… that he’s not following the democratic process. :(

  • hillbicks@feddit.de
    743·
    10 months ago

    I think this is the real issue here, jfc.

    A Des Moines Register/NBC News/Mediacom poll of likely Republican caucus voters released Monday found that Trump’s lead over DeSantis has grown by 5 points since his indictment in Georgia last week on 13 criminal charges related to trying to overturn the results of the 2020 election in the state.

    His approval went UP after the indictment. This is absolutely insane and only shows how hopeless US politics has become. How do you roll that division back? Can you even roll it back if everybody wanted to? This cat is out of the bag and I don’t see it going back in there any time soon.

    The only hope I’ve left is the division of the GOP itself. Let the extremists go somewhere else politically and it’ll hopefully lead to a more, what is the word again, fact based approach of politics when the extremists can be ignored because you don’t have to appease them.

    • El Barto@lemmy.world
      449·
      10 months ago

      Why is all U.S. politics hopeless because of what’s happening inside the losing party?

      The dems are far from perfect, but their side is much less “hopeless” as you put it.

      • grue@lemmy.ml
        432·
        10 months ago

        Because the Republicans currently have the support of something like 20% more of the population than the NAZIs did when they seized power.

        Remember, unlike folks who believe in democracy, tyrants don’t need a majority to win.

        This is an extremely dangerous time for liberty in the US, and complacent attitudes like yours are only increasing the danger.

      • Lmaydev@programming.dev
        13·
        10 months ago

        The rebulicans have plenty of politicians in power besides the president. As long as the voters favour trump they’ll need to appease them to get into the other houses.

        In an ideal world it will split there vote allowing massive dem gains. But that hasn’t happened yet.

        • RGB3x3@lemmy.world
          7·
          10 months ago

          If there’s anything the GOP is good at, it’s mobilizing and motivating their voters. When they are all so alike, it’s easy to get them to agree on the stupid shit.

          The democrats have the issue of diversity, which makes it hard to motivate large groups of people on a single issue. Love the diversity for the strength it brings, but it makes it hard to feel you’re getting adequate representation in a two-party, first-past-the-post system no matter who you are.

          I wouldn’t trade the diversity for the mess the GOP is though.

    • flipht@kbin.social
      12·
      10 months ago

      Mainstream “normal” republicans won’t actually not vote republican. They know that their only hope of maintaining some power is to continue to work with the batshit crazy regressives.

      They got in bed with these people via the Southern Strategy, and they’ve only recently started making noises like they’re uncomfortable. Once they’re in the booth, though, they will still vote straight ticket.

      • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
        5·
        10 months ago

        I expect the Mitt Romney/Chris Christie wing to do a hostile take over of the Libertarian Party and abandon the GOP lable to the Trump wing.

        It would be easier to take over a party that’s already on all state ballots then create a new one from the ground up.

    • whatisallthis@lemm.ee
      114·
      10 months ago

      Honestly it’s just as easy as the media deciding they want us all to be friends again.

      That’s legit all it takes.

      If left and right wing media outlets would just start an initiative to bring the country together, everyone would fall in line. People only think what they are told to think.

      The issue is that these corporations want money, and happiness doesn’t make money.

    • kava@lemmy.world
      2014·
      10 months ago

      Hitler became dictator only after he was sent and got out of jail. Lula in Brazil more recently was sent to jail and then got out and won a presidential election.

      The Justice system coming after you feeds the Trumper’s belief that the system is against him. Therefore he is anti-establishment therefore they must vote for him because there is a very strong anti-establishment movement right now.

      It’s why I think it was a very dangerous and potentially foolish decision to bring charges against him. We may be starting a chain of events that will get out of control.

      • Shalakushka@kbin.social
        281·
        10 months ago

        You’re right, we should just let Trump break as many laws as he wants because we are scared of his yokel supporters. That would be way better.

        • EnderWi99in@kbin.social
          2·
          10 months ago

          I don’t think they are suggesting he should be allowed to break laws, but acknowledging the challenge the accountability brings with it.

        • kava@lemmy.world
          11·
          10 months ago

          Maybe it’s better that he had either lost the election first and then we charged or we had brought charges 2 years ago instead of right before election season.

          I’m not sure, to be honest. I just think this is a dangerous decision that shouldn’t be made likely. The world doesn’t work like it ought to. We should keep that in mind. Obviously me and you don’t actually make decisions so we can just speculate.

          But I’m worried about the near future.

          • PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world
            5·
            10 months ago

            The issue is that his DoJ refused to investigate him because they have a standing policy that a president cannot be charged with breaking the law. So despite multiple public violations of both law breaking and high crimes and misdemeanors, Trump was allowed to get away with it under the Nixonian mandate of anything the president does is by definition legal. It means that Biden could begin actually just arresting all republican politicians on the charge of treason and, as long as the senate doesn’t vote to remove him from office with a 2/3 majority, it’s legal even though it would violate the word and intent of the constitution.

            Now they can’t prosecute him because, despite being a private citizen, he might become president? This is the same party - and literally the same person - who joyfully chanted “lock her up” over their political opponent throughout the previous campaign. The same people who boasted about defeating Hillary Clinton via a comic investigation into Benghazi, which was designed to do exactly what it did.

            Absolutely nothing republicans complain about is said in good faith. It’s time to move past that idea and not even address the complaint. If Trump wasn’t investigated and prosecuted, he’d still be ahead in the polls. Trump is the republican party, and the republican party is Trump.

      • grue@lemmy.ml
        17·
        10 months ago

        The error with Hitler wasn’t sending him to prison, it was letting him out again after only a few months.

        • kava@lemmy.world
          11·
          10 months ago

          Well that’s the issue with imprisoning popular political figures. All it takes is a tide to shift, a different party to come to power, and they may remove the popular figure from prison.

          What if we imprison him and say DeSantis makes freeing Trump his main campaign promise? This type of thing can have unforeseen consequences. It’s an unprecedented time.

      • rynzcycle@kbin.social
        5·
        10 months ago

        I think there is a bit of cherry picking in this. I don’t think you’re wrong that the charges will rile up his supporters, but plenty of dictators have taken power without going to jail.

        The problem was already there, charges or not we were going to have to deal with a very violent mob, at least with charges filed we stand up for the moral value that all people (should be) are equal under the law.

        • kava@lemmy.world
          3·
          10 months ago

          I agree you don’t need it but I think there’s a certain zeitgeist going on right now and for example the last Brazilian president before Lula, Bolsonaro is also being prosecuted and they’re trying to put him in jail.

          These types of things are not normal in a stable and healthy democracy. We are teetering on the edge. I just hope Democrats can win this next election. I hate them with a passion but I think they can at least maintain the system functional for another 4 years.

      • btaf45@lemmy.world
        1·
        10 months ago

        Therefore he is anti-establishment

        Being a crime lord does not make anyone “anti-establishment”. Bernie Sanders says Treason Trump is the most corrupt president in history. What matters is not a meaningless abstract word but whether the billionaire elites support your policies, and they love Treason Trump’s tax cuts for the rich.

        • kava@lemmy.world
          1·
          10 months ago

          Of course but you try explaining that to the Trumpers. They won’t believe you. They hear Trump say “witch hunt” and “hoax” so they’re primed to believe it and then he tells them the government is against him… they see the justice system going after them… it almost becomes evidence for it. You see what I mean?

  • relative_iterator@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    492·
    10 months ago

    He’s not part of the party and never was. They let him come in and take over. It’s time for them to really up their language and actions against Trump rather than coddling him and his followers out of fear.

    • Chainweasel@lemmy.worldEnglish
      48·
      10 months ago

      That won’t happen until long after he’s dead. They’ll prop him up as their golden calf until he can’t speak anymore. Then like a light switch they’ll have never supported him in the slightest and he was the evil man that took control of the GOP and made them look bad for 20 years.

        • Chainweasel@lemmy.worldEnglish
          10·
          10 months ago

          He has access to better healthcare than 99% of the rest of us. Despite his best efforts I don’t think we’ll be rid of him anytime soon.

          • 7u5k3n@lemmy.world
            4·
            10 months ago

            I think he’s going to flee America and do some sort of radio / online media message as a deposed dictator president . And continue to grift until he can’t.

          • shuzukoEnglish
            33·
            10 months ago

            Unless he has an “attack of conscience” and “commits suicide”. Inside a guarded cell. Where he’s being watched 24/7.

            You know, the usual way.

            Edit: honestly, I’m curious about the downvotes. Do people think I’m suggesting this is a thing that should happen? I think this would honestly be the worst possible result. And, call me a pessimist, but that’s why I’m afraid of it happening. They’ll be able to control him and his cult much better with him dead than alive.

            • Im14abeer
              English
              4·
              10 months ago

              Ah, the ole Epstinearoo. A classic to be sure.

            • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
              2·
              10 months ago

              That won’t happen as he may turn out to be more dangerous dead than alive.

              You can stick him in prison and then people can forget about him but if he dies he becomes a martyr.

              • shuzukoEnglish
                1·
                10 months ago

                Oh, I completely agree he will be far more dangerous dead than alive. Particularly because they won’t struggle to control him anymore. I wasn’t suggesting it should go that way… More suggesting that I can easily see it happening. On purpose. Specifically so that they can control the narrative.

              • btaf45@lemmy.world
                1·
                10 months ago

                You can stick him in prison and then people can forget about him but if he dies he becomes a martyr.

                There is no scenario where Convicted Sex Offender Treason Trump doesn’t wind up with the same historical reputation as that of Benedict Arnold. His crimes were arguably bigger than Arnold’s crimes.

        • norb@lem.norbz.org
          2·
          10 months ago

          They’re still milking Regan’s corpse 20 years later. Don’t need him to be alive to use him, for better or worse.

      • _errer@sh.itjust.works
        1·
        10 months ago

        It might be closer to when he’s no longer a viable candidate. They turned on Bush practically before he was out of office

        • btaf45@lemmy.world
          1·
          10 months ago

          Convicted Sex Offender Loser Trump will lose to Biden again by an even bigger margin, and then exhaust his criminal appeals, then go to jail for the rest of his life. The every GOP voter will suddenly claim they never really supported Convicted Sex Offender Loser Trump.

    • Catma@lemmy.world
      17·
      10 months ago

      Trump is 100% the Republican party of today. Maybe you could say he was an outsider in 2015 having little political experience but he is now the face of the party. He is leading in Iowa by 23 points and in national polls by an average of 37 points. Republicans courted the MAGA base for a long time and now that they have control of the party. The Republican party can no more excise Trump and his base than one could cut out their own heart and remain whole.

    • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
      12·
      10 months ago

      They didn’t let him come in and take over. There were 12 people running for the Republican primary in 2016, and that split the vote so much that Trump was able to get a plurality in most states. If it had been two or three candidates Trump may not have been able to win.

  • letsalllovelain@discuss.tchncs.de
    241·
    10 months ago

    This is another example of how leniency for those who would make themselves king eventually leads to dictatorship. See you in another 5 years for the civil war.

  • downpunxx@kbin.social
    15·
    10 months ago

    Institutionalized racism, misogyny, homophobia, and white Christian separatism as party platform. No matter how “conservative” Republicans claimed to be, The Southern Strategy was the core value and singular driving force for the past 60 years. MAGA isn’t a symptom, it’s result

  • HurlingDurling@lemm.eeEnglish
    10·
    10 months ago

    If the GOP actually does something, the only thing they can would be to kick him out of the GOP. However, if they do that, Trump will most likely form his own political party, and start attracting senators, governors, and house members to switch to his new party to give it legitimately.

    I have been saying and I will keep on saying this, Trump is the modern day Hitler.

  • OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee
    3·
    10 months ago

    The only way to discourage this behavior is to help the other candidates make their pitch, which has to be why they are a better choice than Trump.

    This should be how it works, the entire reason for the debate is that the attendees benefit from the attention.