I’ve been trying to find a good Marxist instance, but Lemmygrad and Hexbear are widely hated. Why is that? Are there any good leftist instances?

  • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Both sides convincing their respective voter bases that they have to vote for them to keep the other party out and that there is no other viable option absolutely does benefit the two current parties equally.

    I’m not to sure about American politics whether coalitions are allowed but FPTP does not have to mean just two parties swapping office every 4 years. A strong leftist 3rd party could act as king makers and force whatever party they go into coalition with to take more leftist stances.

    We’ve had this happen in the UK to greater and lesser effectiveness over the years. It only improves democracy as it gives voters more options that potentially align with their values.

    In fact despite the UK being FPTP there are at least 10 parties that get seats in parliament.

    • FaeDrifter
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      1 year ago

      My brother/sister/sibling are you suggesting the UK as your example of leftist/progressive success?

      If the two parties of the US are an illusion of choice that benefits right wing goals, the 10 parties of the UK are an even worse illusion of choice that’s even further right wing.

      • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        No but the UK does prove that there can be more than two parties in a FPTP system and even the smallest parties can go into coalition and influence policy.

        I keep trying to tell you that the centre right democrats also benefit just as much as the right wing. Convincing the general electorate that they have to keep voting for the two parties and anything else is a wasted vote keeps both of them in power.

        If there are more than two parties with large differences in their policies and they gets seats in parliament/congress or whatever the American equivalent is then it’s the opposite of an illusion of choice. Those 10+ parties all get seats in parliament and can vote with or against the government, a lot of them are more leftist than the current government.

        • FaeDrifter
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          1 year ago

          What’s the current state of trans rights in the UK?

          Or while we’re at it, what’s the current stance of the UK government on Israel?

          • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Shit but marginally better than the US on both counts. But the point was not about what the government is doing but the effect of having more than two parties is.

          • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Shit but marginally better than the US on both counts. But the point was not about what the government is doing but what the effect of having more than two parties is.

            • FaeDrifter
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              1 year ago

              The effect of having more than two parties is Brexit plus still being a conservative slumland whose PM has taken a publically transphobic stance, with “unqualified support” for Israel.

              Not voting is like extremely high risk, low reward, maybe no reward.

              Like, let’s risk giving over control of America to a party whose stated intent is to opress and genocide trans people, minorities, women and non-white people, and maybe we’ll get a multi-party system with a milquetoast transphobe Zionist for a president instead.

              • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                If you think brexit was a consequence of having more than 2 parties and not politicians/media lying to the populace and enacting a major change on the back of a slim majority in a nonbinding referendum to make a fuck ton of money for Tory party donors, then you have very little idea bout British politics.

                • FaeDrifter
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                  1 year ago

                  Absolutely I don’t think it’s a consequence of having more than 2 parties. I’m saying Britain’s version of “more than 2 parties” is demonstrably not better than the US system.

                  politicians/media lying to the populace and enacting a major change on the back of a slim majority in a nonbinding referendum

                  Well in a true Democratic system this wouldn’t be possible, but conservatives have a majority rule death grip on your country.

                  This sucks because I WISH the UK system worked for leftists and progressives. It would be amazing to have a perfect example to follow and know it worked in real life and not just internet theory.

                  I cannot consolidate in my head that people who call themselves leftists are actual real leftists when they support policies proven to give conservatives and right wingers power.

                  • spiderplant@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    I mean it absolutely is better. I am able to vote for parties that align closer to my actual politics. But we need voting reform for Westminster elections as well. Ideally to at least movimg away from FPTP to STV.

                    Right wing idiots, neoliberals and outright fascists can get into power anywhere no matter the voting system or how many parties a government has. It’s more to do with the interests of those with money and power.

                    Well in a true Democratic system this wouldn’t be possible, but conservatives have a majority rule death grip on your country.

                    My friend there can never be such a thing as true democracy, the rich own the global media, and countries are their plaything. They can influence any election or any group including/especially in America.

                    This is where it becomes a class issue, the rich can just throw money at the problem and engage in underhand tactics to undermine democracy. If you don’t see it as a class issue and that it is a inherent problem with such massive wealth inequality then you think how they want you to.

                    This is one of the reasons people here are leftist, in the anticapitalist, antifascist sense not in the liberal social reform sense.