*please note i deeply value and respect the vegan movement. i am just critical of how humorously it precipitates in online spaces, particularly this one. :)
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it is especially frustrating coming from a person who would die if they just stopped eating meat (eating disorder), I have mentioned this online and gotten responses from these people saying that they think it would be better for me to starve to death than to eat meat. it makes me depressed to know that some people want me dead
I am glad that people are able to go vegan but some of you go into a moralistic argument and act like everyone who eats meat is glad about it and gets off on torturing animals
I’m a vegan, and fuck those people.
I’ve got a medical condition that meant I had to take it fairly slowly just it be sure my body wasn’t going to literally fall apart when I went vegan, luckily I’m doing well (in a few ways I’m actually much better off now, though I’m still scared of falling apart). Medical conditions are valid as hell for not going vegan, I wasn’t aware of how an eating disorder could prevent it but I’ve read a fair bit online now, so thankyou for sharing.
One of the scariest moments of my life was when my friends and I were publically assaulted by a pair of very large vegan men who didn’t like that we weren’t vegan. I was vego at the time but sure as hell wasn’t going to tell them, people who act like that are an absolute disgrace and make me ashamed to be vegan. Veganism to me comes from a deep sense of empathy, if you can’t feel empathy for other people then you’re not a vegan as far as I’m concerned.
I’m just imaging gangs of large vegan men attacking delis. Where the hell do you live? Lol
Haha it was nothing like that, they just sort of came out of nowhere. My city is normally pretty safe, I’ve literally never had another encounter like that in my life.
If you’re hurting anyone, outside of combat sports or self defense, you’re not vegan. Those men might have been plant based but certainly not vegan
This has to be the stupidest take on the term “plant based” I’ve ever heard. I swear, “plant based” is just the “No true Scotsman” of vegans… anything that a non-meat-consumer does that a vegan doesn’t like makes them plant based instead of vegan. It’s so asinine and intellectually dishonest.
Vegan people can be assholes too. Assholes will inevitably exist in any demographic that gets sufficiently large. I have known people who identify as vegans who insist that it’s preferable for humans to die than for non-human animals to die.
It’s not that complicated… Plant based = diet Veganism = philosophy
Can’t really blame you for not knowing as they do get used interchangeably in the media.
But you can’t just self identify as a person that follows a certain philosophy without actually following it. Vegans avoid cruelty towards animals and humans are animals.
And what if someone is convinced that acts of cruelty towards some humans is the most effective way to reduce cruelty towards a large number of animals? They might think that you’re not vegan because you’re allowing more cruelty towards animals to exist than they are. I have encountered self-identifying vegans who genuinely think this way.
I don’t think you can stop cruelty through cruelty. Veganism is about acknowledging every individual and abstaining from exploitation and cruelty towards them. It’s not some sort of utilitarian philosophy where it’s ok sacrifice a small number of individuals for the good of a larger group.
this take is being criticized for no true scottsman-ing but it kinda makes a lot of sense, like ‘oh no i hate seeing living creatures harmed let me go punch this guy’??? it seems like maybe those dudes were just looking for an excuse to whack people and if not veganism they would have found some other ideology to abuse
obviously this doesn’t work for everyone, but this is why i’m such a big proponent of meat alternatives
having stuff like pea protein nuggets fortified with vitamin B12 and whatever else is an actually practical way to reduce meat consumption, if we make it possible to replace meat and barely notice that you’ve done so then everyone but the meat industry wins, which is even more of a win for the rest of us.
stay alive and fed bestie 😌✨
I have too many other things to worry about, to make myself hate meat. That said, I understand there is terrible shit happening in that industry, most militant vegans I have crossed paths with are wearing an apple watch and Nikes…so, I can’t take them seriously. We all pick our battles. In the end, work harder on making fake meat great. Get on it vegans, fund the research and go to school for it! If I can get my animal proteins and whatever else from a burger thqt I can’t tell came from a lab, I will never buy farmed meat again, just like that, overnight. If you sit in front of a dairy isle with pictures of sad cows, I am going reach past you, get my milk, and forget you exist in 2 isles. A lot of people are not actively against your cause, we just don’t care either way. Be more effective.
I personally love cheesebreather, bloodmouth, and milk-drinker.
Bonus points to milk-drinker because that’s not even a term made by vegans to call people coward babies. Play Skyrim and you’ll hear it all over the place!
Carnist doesn’t count because it’s not technically an insult. It’s just a name for someone that practices carnism. Carnism IS terrible, but the purpose of the word is no different than Christian to Christianity.
It’s hilarious that carnists get so butthurt about being called what they are though so I enjoy that part.
I personally love cheesebreather, bloodmouth, and milk-drinker.
see i just couldn’t keep a straight face if you tried to say those while making eye contact 😭😭
I’m glad accurate discriptors of your lifestyle seem as ridiculous to you as they are!
Carnist seems to imply that they eat ONLY meat though. They’re not carnivores, they’re omnivores. It’s on the same level as using the terms pro-abortion and pro-life to describe the two sides of that debate. This kind of name calling of an out group is not too far removed from all the wacky names flat-earthers give to all the rest of us just living here on the globe not being wack-a-doos.
Using the term butthurt is some straight up 90s era homophobia too. Nice.
genuinely curious, how is ‘butthurt’ 90s homophobia?
It isn’t. It’s in reference to “having a stick up your ass”, which means being uptight and overly serious. Because they are stiff, as though a firm rod had been run the length of their body.
People also mistakenly believe that to be a homophobic phrase too. Mind you, there’s a slim distinction here. Telling someone to “shove it up your ass” could be considered homophobic, though I think of it as just rude. I feel like context would matter a lot here.
The youth today think everything insulting must be a slur of some kind and are obcesse with moral purity.
The youth today have nothing to do with it. It’s reactionaries who take a genuine issue (people using actual slurs) and apply it to situations that work in their favour (acting like ‘carnist’ or ‘cishet’ are slurs).
I can’t find anything except random tweets saying as much, and a medium article behind a paywall saying it isn’t.
So… I have no idea either.
That could be carnivore, carnist means they follow carnism, which is the ethical framework that justifies human subjugation and exploitation of non-human animals
From my understanding, carnism is closely related to speciesism. Most people wouldn’t eat dogs or cats, but happily eat chickens, cows and pigs.
I always feel like “carnist” implies they’re a pervert too
Filthy, degenerate carnist out there holding hands and hamburgers!
bloodmouth sounds like the name a supervillain
or their last name, idk
I think carnist is a useful word that a lot of people get caught up on. As you say it’s not a pejorative, just a word that describes someone who chooses to eat meat as opposed to carnivore which is a creature that can only eat meat. All humans are omnivores, but not all are carnists.
I get vegancirclejerk posts in my feed and in most cases I am not sure if these posts are serious or just making fun of vegans. Most of the time it looks like troll posts. It’s more like a meat-hate cult.
Its a circlejerk, the whole idea is to troll
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carnism
you are the person this post is about
Hi there!
I believe the old mods of vegancirclejerk were inactive, I was just recently promoted and hoping to change that perception! I agree, WAY too much unironic carnism is posted there.
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I think a big problem is that most people who stumble upon posts from Vegancirclejerk are random non-vegans who see it in their feed. Is it even possible to exclude communities from the everything feed on Lemmy?
It’s a shame because VCJ and VFCJ were my favourite communities on Reddit but the vibe on their Lemmy counterpart is not quite there yet. I just want my cruelty free echo chamber back dammit.
Is it even possible to exclude communities from the everything feed on Lemmy?
Yes it is, I have blocked several and never see them unless a sister on another instance gains traction
Yeah seems like it, either way it’s cringe. On one hand these are sicere and that is just too bad for vegan comunity, on the other hand it’s pure trolling - which is just sad.
It’s more like a meat-hate cult.
Lesbians?
Girldick tho
lesbians may love meat on occasion 😁
Me every time a militant vegan says “carnist”:
I’ve never interpreted that as an attempt at an insult, what word do you think is more fitting?
Omnivore, maybe? 🤷
But yeah, pretending that eating meat is an ism IS an insult when coming from an evangelical vegan who considers it morally reprehensible lol
“carnist” has a different meaning than omnivore. It’s used for people who actively defend what they think is their right to consume flesh.
Just like how evangelical vegans actively assert what they think is their right to control the diets and other lifestyle choices of adult humans who haven’t asked them to? 🙄
basically the same way we assert the right to tell people to stop using ai, to stop being racist, sexist, transphobic, using planes or heavy cars, giving money to fascists…
chosing to view animals as resources is not about diet, it’s about power over sentient beings and hierarchy of lives based on species.
Holy false equivalences, Batman! Are you going for the record or are you really THAT bad at discerning wildly disparate concepts and levels of severity from each other? 🤦
Now class, over here is a blatant example of the ad hominem fallacy
Omnivore, maybe?
I’ve seen the JBP crowd denounce the consumption of any amount of vegetables as woke and soy.
Yeah, THEY can accurately be described as “carnist”, unlike the rest of us.
They’re a tiny minority that DO elevate meat eating to an ism.
See the difference?
See the difference?
Honestly, no. It’s still just people being mad at each other for no reason.
If you don’t see the difference between eating meat at all and not just ONLY eating meat, but portraying eating vegetables as a moral failing, then I just can’t help you.
I can explain it to you, but I can’t understand it for you.
I don’t see the difference between people complaining online and other people complaining online
Yeah, people hurt themselves to own the people they disagree with…but I am pretty sure we are supposed to be omnivores…I don’t think carnivore works for us. #NotAnExpert
We are omnivorous by nature, but we can do fine without eating meat if we get the protein from elsewhere.
the militant ones are cool. it’s the evangelical ones that bring out my ire.
Some things are so horrible and evil that it’s difficult to ridicule them, it requires a lot of creativity.
Carnismisn’t one,carnismis an academic term, andcarnistjust means “a proponent of carnism” (it may be in some dictionaries already).https://www.carnismdebunked.com/
Deal with it, meatflakes.
bro said meatflakes 🤣 say it again
meatflakes sounds good. mmmm like bacon bits on a donut
I’ve got a few family friends who were livid when they found out their daughter had watched the movie “Bambi”, because they were convinced it would make her Go Woke the next time they tried to go deer hunting.
I bet he did want to be my ham though!
This classic is for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAF35dekiAY
“…but I’ll happily eat someone else who has been made ‘my’ bacon!”
Too bad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
“Debunked?” It’s delicious, and that’s a subjective truth for me that cannot be debated - there’s nothing to debunk.
Solipsists are truly the worst.
You should try human flesh. There are some countries that humanely kill unadoptable children, their flesh is subjectively delicious, it’s an undebatable truth! And if that’s not to your liking, Elwood Dog Farm humanely slaughters all numbers of dogs for your gourmet pleasures. Debunk that, vegans!
I have no problem with eating non-pet dogs, but there is real danger that comes from cannibalism. Don’t be stupid.
No more danger than eating puffer fish. Avoid the brain and spinal tissue, you avoid the risk of a prison disease. Besides, if we’re talking about dangers to our health, veganism is quantifiably healthier and correlated with longevity.
And what do you mean “non-pet” dogs? Why wouldn’t you want to eat your pets? They live a much happier life before their slaughter, and it’s easier to manage the texture of their meat when they’re live-in stock.
You haven’t thought this through much, huh?
veganism is quantifiably healthier and correlated with longevity.
in some respects for some people. some of the studies (china study, for instance) have been debunked, though.
you aren’t a dietician. even if you are (i admit, i was guessing), you aren’t my dietician, so maybe you shouldn’t be telling other people what a healthy diet would be for them.
It’s true and cringe, you should still go vegan though
No.
Great argument
first time i heard someone using the term carnists it was being used as an insult and i was so confused because “wait why are vegans mad at carnivals now?”
I once had a fling with a vegan girl who referred to me as a “carnie”, intending it to be a jab at me. Having worked in a carnival for several years I found it hilarious she tried to make it an insult.
Not a vegan, but you’re an asshole. People recognize a genuine problem with an industry that contributes massively to climate change, antibiotic resistance, and environmental destruction, and you’re mocking them? That’s some South Park level shittyness/stupidity. Maybe one day you’ll realize vegans have a point, but you probably won’t own up to how much harm your attitude caused.GTFO. You aren’t welcome here.Edit: thank you for editing the post. It really wasn’t clear that it was meant to mock a shitty subset of vegans when you first posted it rather than the entire movement. I 100% agree that those people can be snobbish dicks.
when on earth did i say i wasn’t vegan or disagreed with them :) i simply think the words are objectively very funny
edit: but taking your criticism to heart, ive just now edited the meme to be less acerbic and to better reflect my intention. thank you for sharing your thoughts. i don’t mean to be hurtful, just shining a light on the silly stuff in the world.
You’re right. They can be oh so holier-than-thou about an individual choice that can’t practically solve the problem. I saw your comment about vegans not harming anyone(even though those vegans harm by being mean), and assumed you were a chud. It’s really important for all of us to be more clear about our intentions. If we aren’t, it invites reactionaries to feel comfortable here.
okay slay 🤝 yiss i agree
Surely this will make more people take vegans seriously!
Not a vegan
Definitely a vegan lol
Nah, I love meat. I just eat it without any illusions that it’s not fucked up. Ultimately, many people can’t afford to not eat animal products. Being a vegan is expensive in time and money, which is why lower income people aren’t as commonly vegan. It’s possible for them, but it does take a ton of time and effort.
Things are this way because the full cost of the meat industry get passed off to the public as negative externalities. It’s the same way with the fossil fuel industry. Chevron doesn’t pay for the harm caused by greenhouse gasses in the same way that the meat industry doesn’t pay for the diseases their industry spawns, the increased agricultural production to feed livestock that cuts down forests, or the fucking cow farts spewing methane.
Mocking vegans has the same energy as mocking renewable energy. It’s not as bad, but only because we aren’t as totally reliant on meat. Our current society cannot function on renewable energy. We’d need to effectively degrow to reach net zero, and markets will never do that. Average people cannot solve this problem by going vegan or getting solar, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad to do those things.
Being a vegan is expensive in time and money
I don’t think the second half is true. Despite being subsidized like crazy, meat is still relatively expensive.
It’s definitely more time-consuming if you wouldn’t be cooking otherwise. At least in my experience if you want to eat something vegan you gotta make it yourself (at least in my home country).
i really think it’s just more nuanced. vegan meals can be both cheaper or more expensive, easier or more complex, depending on the specific meal/where you live/time of year/etc etc
like you can totally just eat whatever plant bits and mushrooms you can get your hands on along with a multivitamin, that will probably be cheap and healthy as hell and the most effort involved is peeling things and spending a few minutes frying or an hour of unattended time stewing it. That is however probably really fucking unappealing for most people, so you have to either spend more effort on making the meals interesting, or spend more money on premade actually appealing vegan products.
As an autistic person who was viewed as “picky” growing up, and having been raised with the culture of a “meal” consisting of starch/protein/some veggies/TONS of sauce; it’s taken a fair bit of effort to even accept the idea of not having any meat in my food, and i still regularly use stuff like ground pork or chicken breasts in my cooking because it’s just such a simple way to produce food that makes me happy.
What i really wish would change is the proliferation of more good, simple, tasty, and cheap vegan or at least low-meat frozen food. One of my absolute favourite food products is Felix vegetarian hash, which is just diced potato, onions, soy-based protein chunks, and some seasoning; which you toss in a frying pan with some fat and fry for like 10-15 minutes and it’s done. Costs 7 EUR per kg and tastes really good, it’s human kibble in the best way possible especially if you just add some frozen peas.
i really think it’s just more nuanced.
Absolutely! Despite making a short straightforward comment about my own experiences with the time commitment and cost of veganism, I fully understand that it’s more nuanced in my own life, let alone across the breadth of differing human experiences and cultures worldwide.
One of my absolute favourite food products is Felix vegetarian hash
I am genuinely glad you managed to find a cheap and tasty food which can at least help you reduce slightly your meat purchases.
I really dislike non-vegan leftists and environmemtalists, the bullshit, the endless excuses as soon as YOU have to change, not others. Stop eating meat and save 3/4 of landuse, water pollution and co2 emissions.
Going vegan is such a money-where-your-mouth-is move. If you’re left enough to know the damage meat eating causes, yet you still eat meat, how are you better than the industries you call out?
So much right wing bullshit is based on greed, yet left wing meat eaters can’t make the single most significant consumer change because “bacon too yummy lol”.
All these great left wing youtubers, as soon as I see they’re not vegan my respect drops in half.
I feel you! My last comment here was exactly this.
The meme is about this type response. Hilarious.
Veganism does cause intellectual deficiencies. Did you forget to take your supplements?
“The meme is about this type response”
no it’s not.
personal attack against their intelligence
not cool. you should consider logging onto the internet and being kind to people.
Allowing bad ideas to propagate unchallenged helps no one.
There are studies behind the negative affects on brain health that occur with vegan diet are not something I made up.
Unlike the agenda based studies that vegans trot out, there is hard science backing it up.
“no you don’t understand, bad ideas have to be challenged that’s why i was forced to personally insult you”
blocked for being rude. toodles ✌️
I didn’t personal insult you, you were insulted on someone’s behalf. That’s precious.
dude lemmy.world is rly toxic recently i wonder what happened
spujb called open season on everybody and I’m here for it
i consider myself an equal opportunity hater 🧚♀️
Your response isn’t any better, to be honest. Yes, there is a certain risk of a negative impact on cognitive performance related to a large and long-time B12 or iron deficiency. But there is a large difference between “you have to take supplements to be healthy” and a blanket claim of “veganism does cause intellectual deficiencies”, especially considering most vegans supplement.
Side note: the B12 in factory farmed meat is also supplemented to those animals, otherwise their meat wouldn’t contain it, being produced under those conditions. One can only hope all farmers actually do this
veganism does cause intellectual deficiencies
especially consideringso most vegans have to supplement.Better?
No, since the claim “veganism does cause intellectual deficiencies” is still wrong, because veganism doesn’t cause this, a lack of supplementation does. And most vegans supplement adequately. So saying that veganism “per default” causes this would be dishonest, because it implies that not properly supplementing is the default/intrinsic to veganism, which is not the case.
It’s like saying “drinking alcohol kills you” just because you have to be mindful of limiting your consumption and it can kill you if you don’t. An extreme statement that contains a kernel of truth, but is simply not correct.
Good argument, but it’s still admitting that veganism is completely unsuitable for humans in general, due to (and proven by) the need for supplements
How does this follow in any way? You know that the distinction of “supplement” and “regular part of the diet” is completely arbitrary, right? What’s the difference between regular supplementation and the requirement of “having to hydrate” or “eat your greens for your vitamins” to be healthy? It’s even less logical/relevant considering many replacement products add B12 etc on their own by now.
Also factory farmed animals are getting B12 fed as a supplement, which makes this argument even weirder. “Pills bad/not part of the diet”, but feeding the same pills to pigs and then eating their meat to get the same nutrients is suddenly “ok and natural/good diet”? Doesn’t make sense to me.
You just keep telling yourself that, beanboy
user was banned for this comment 😜
I guess I don’t see the posts you’re referencing.
Also, I think you meant participates, not precipitates.
no i mean precipitates, it’s one of my favorite words
e: a synonym would be “manifests” or “incarnates”
Wow, I had no idea my known definition of precipitate was so low down the list of its meanings. Thanks!
and thank you for letting me flex my favorite word :)
I’m glad to see this interaction contributing to Lemmy’s cordial atmosphere.
Because as they say, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the precipitate.
<EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER>
Also a favorite of mine, but that meaning is usually transitive. So it “precipitates <something>”, not simply “precipitates”. A more syntactically equivalent synonym would be “causes” or “leads to”.
Like “slightly misusing a word on Lemmy precipitates a nerd-off”.
“manifests” and “incarnates” are also both capable of being transitive, and i in fact use “precipitates” transitively here, it’s just that i kind of left the object of that verb implied rather than stated, most likely because i was rushing to not get cancelled
an example would be saying just “i like how quietly clouds precipitate” where “rain” is left off because implied. i recognize my sentence was a lot less obvious for sure tho 😝
Reddit had some vegan communities that were about recipes and food-porn shots without constantly talking shit about people who ever eat anything non-vegan.
Lemmy… has some vegan communities.
You’re not kidding. The ones on here go out of their way to make sure non vegans never turn vegan.
They seem to think that if you don’t immediately go vegan you’re trash, instead of helping slowly push people in that direction.
I’m not a vegetarian but my culture has a ton of great vegetarian options. I give these recipes to friends after they have them at my place. This is a good first step to get people to eat less meat. Just make good food that happens to not have meat. Baby steps. I would say about a third of my meals are vegetarian at this point.
Hey, at least I’m not one of those weirdos who drinks stolen breast milk
I buy mine.
From a consenting woman or from a breast milk thief?
It fell off the back of a titty truck
It’s… so counterproductive. It’s like zero waste, we don’t need a few people doing it perfectly, we need millions doing it imperfectly. By being such dicks and so combative about it, they actively are stopping people from having anything to do with them and reducing their animal product consumption. I’ve recieved various responses to this, from “If someone being mean to you stops you from not continuing to torture animals then you’re a really shitty person” (and like yeah you don’t have to convince me, I’m already suicidal, but contrarianism and not liking groups that are dicks to you is human nature) to “I don’t care, you’re evil and deserve to feel bad” it really seems to me like those people ironically just like hurting others and don’t really actually care about improving lives for animals. Give up animal products? Sure! Give up shitting on people? NEVER! Certainly not all vegans are this way but the vitriolic ones online certainly are and give the rest such a bad name.
pretty good summary and it’s sooo much an exclusively internet problem
Awww they’re not hurting no one…
exactly 😂😂😂😂
You misunderstand.
I get the fun and appeal of being a little mean, but you’re punching down innit? It feels weird to call out a group that’s not hurting anyone.
i call out groups all the time when they do funny stuff
marvel fans aren’t hurting anyone either but i often make fun of them :) i wouldn’t personally call that punching down but if you must, feel free i guess
marvel fans aren’t hurting anyone
This is how you get slapped by Martin Scorsese
he’s right behind me isn’t he
Absolute 🫷😀🫸 Cinema
Imagine being such a coward that you specifically choose to start shit on a community that has downvotes disabled.
unblocking you temporarily just to say that this is by far the tamest callout-style post i have made in a hot second, 196 or not, both in my messaging and in reception :) people are being by and large very chill here and i am proud of this fact. when you see insults getting thrown, report it as it’s not allowed here. oktakecarebyeeee
Sure, it’s super tame if you ignore the insults getting thrown against vegans, which are far more than the ones in the opposite direction both in this thread and elsewhere around Lemmy. But since those are sent against the same people you’re throwing hostility against, everything is still “tame” to you. Fucking amazing.
“Could it be that I’m annoying and the broader Lemmyverse just doesn’t like me? No, it’s OP who deliberately got them going and turned them against me”
I’m not a vegan and I’ve never insulted people for eating meat, but I have eyes and I can observe that people get far more shit for being vegan than for not being so on this site. Keep on deluding yourself to maintain the fantasy that you’re not in the wrong, though.
people get far more shit for being vegan than for not being so on this site
Get over yourself. Nobody cares what you eat, they care when they proselytize and demand that everyone takes their views. People don’t hate vegans, they hate annoying soapbox screamers.
Nah.
That’s a nice argument, senator. Why don’t you back it up with a source?
It’s nobody else’s fault when an instance configures itself wrong.
I have provided polite feedback about the utility of downvotes, in threads that went ‘it’s great this instance has no downvotes, so everyone has to use their words for polite feedback!,’ and some ShitJustWorks admin put a boot in my ass like I was ruining their fun. The modern internet’s idea of civility is complete nonsense.
Are you referring to Lemmy? As I write this, I can see your downvote count (7) as well as your upvote count (12).
I am using Voyager for Lemmy on Android. It has a setting to show both values instead of just the sum of them (which I believe would be default setting).
If a server has downvotes disabled (as does dot blahaj dot zone), you will only be able to see downvotes coming from your own server (which is dot world).
What in the goddamn is a ‘goofy slur’?
hyuck hyuck
I’ll fucken do it again
[Goofy falling yell]
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