“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them,” Sanders said.
“First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well. While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.”
“Will the big money interests and well-paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn any real lessons from this disastrous campaign?” Sanders asked.
“Will they understand the pain and political alienation that tens of millions of Americans are experiencing? Do they have any ideas as to how we can take on the increasingly powerful Oligarchy which has so much economic and political power? Probably not.”
Had Trump won in 2020, he’d have taken the fall for the Recession and Hyperinflation and it would have caused a 2008 effect. Populist Wave haulted, strangled in it’s crib by Coronachan.
Had Trump won in 2020, he’d be done now and his VP would still be the democracy respecting Pence.
Trump when elected in 2016 had no major plan and mostly left the employees of the state intact, and in 2020 the change was minimal. Now there’s a full blown scheme to control the government
In 2020 they didn’t know how much they could get away with. They’ve seen the limits now.
Winning in 2020 means no January 6th shattering the overton window and leading SCOTUS to some interesting choices about power.
2020-2024 had one Supreme Court Justice to appoint. Now there’s another 2 if not 3
In 2020 it would have been close. Now Democrats will have to regain ground, New Jersey New Hampshire and Minnesota are now Swing States.
2016 Trump had his populist wave weakened by Gary Johnson and Evan McMulin who blocked the popular vote and kept states like Colorado and New Mexico out of his hands. 2016 Trump sucked with Hispanics. That initial wave would have burnt out with the COVID fuckery. Instead Democrats slotted in, took the 4 worst possible years, and are handing it back having effectively both given them another shot in the arm and crippled themselves. There goes the court. This isn’t John Kerry, it’s Carter.
I’ve heard of 2020 hindsight, but this is ridiculous
Bernie Sanders is talking that shit.
Almost like he could have saved this whole scenario in 2016. Fuckin DNC kiss the ring Hillary bullshit.
At this point I’d be in favor of him just starting a podcast and enjoying retirement. The left has to go around the DNC to effectively deliver their message, it’s foolish to think otherwise.
I think one way the party screwed up was by not cultivating younger Democrats to contend for the nomination this year. It’s not like 2024 or Biden’s age snuck up on anybody - they should have had a slate of viable options ready besides him. The Harris campaign was brilliantly run, especially on such short notice, and I don’t blame her or the campaign one bit for failing. But as many analysts have pointed out, the public didn’t feel like they knew her - the VP is surprisingly not super visible. One thing Trump had in his favor was that he was “the devil you know”. He had already been President and we’re still here, whereas they didn’t feel they knew Harris. I thought that changed radically as the summer went on. She really seemed to grab everybody. It was electric and exhilarating. But apparently not enough.
They need to swing for the fences more. Don’t just bring forward the items that might pass, bring up the bills that really matter, again and again, and put that in an ad. I’m probably more politically in-tuned than most voters (clearly) and I only know of ONE vote to raise the minimum wage during Bidens term. It should’ve been a dozen votes and then Dems get to say they were fighting for the working class while the GOP gets paid to show up and say “No” to everything.
Yeah I forget who said it but I remember a commentator in 2016 complaining that Democrats seemed afraid to get out their and really be Democrats. But TBH I felt like Kamala was doing that.
That party of the Roosevelt is gone since the Clintons showed up. It’s market-based solutions organization nothing. If you don’t like it, you can forfeit your tax rebate
Jesus Christ still more sharp than Trump or Biden. We got fuckin robbed, man.
Robbed twice, still tries to help people. Can’t say that about most politicians.
Twice too.
Thrice you might say, considering we could have had a primary this time too but for Biden’s hubris
I’m not sure he would have ran again even if Biden stepped down in the most graceful way possible to be honest. The second time he ran I remember him saying a large part of why he did was because people kept telling him how much they felt the country needed him, while he himself was having doubts on his ability to fill the office in his age, or weighing the amount of stress it would bring, and even looking at his vote totals and wondering if the country even wanted him as president. He’s gotta be tired, and my take on Sanders these past 8 years is if Trump didn’t exist he’d have been a happily retired grandpa, and he’s just trying to do whatever he thinks has the best chance to stop Trump and American Fascism in general. This perspective seems to make a lot of things line up including this verbal thrashing of his. He does have access to communication with top democratic play-makers, who knows how long hes been telling them something like this.
He specifically said he wouldn’t iirc.
I must have missed that but I believe it.
https://apnews.com/article/bernie-sanders-biden-endorsement-2024-d8f0772b117e2bf83e1062708ea651c0
On Tuesday, he said that he would not run and he discouraged any another high-profile progressive candidates from doing so either.
Now is about the time of year I remember to say “Fuck Debbie Wasserman Shultz”
Still upset she moved up in positioning in the party. Genuinely feels like she cheated and won with zero consequences.
She’s probably on AIPAC payroll. Can’t upset America’s boss.
AIPAC gave her more than 400k this year alone.
geez you weren’t kidding
Several other Democrats who voted to censure Tlaib were among the top recipients of AIPAC funds in November, including Florida Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz ($141,058) (link)
and that was in January. If it’s any consolation, the evil is slowly draining her life away it seems.
2016 :
2023:
Genuinely feels like she cheated and won with zero consequences.
Seems like that’s going around a lot these days.
They keep giving us candidates nobody fucking wants and keep being surprised when they lose
And then it creates all this infighting where we’re all blaming each other for being Bernie bros or third party protest voters when in reality it’s the regular joes on the street who need to be convinced to give a fuck about their candidate, not terminally online hyperpolitical dweebs
The democrats are just gonna keep losing and our climate is going to slip deeper and deeper past the point of no return. Earths climate, our political climate, our social fabric, all of it. Slowly but surely being pissed down the drain because Joe Biden thought he should run despite middling approval ratings and massive health concerns, leaving us with literally zero choice but to back Harris once he inevitably stepped down. Because we had so called “superdelegates” choosing our candidates for us in the 2016 election when we were actually able to finally build a massive grassroots movement spearheaded by the Sanders campaign.
We’re gonna keep losing, and we’re gonna keep blaming each other, and the ruling class are just gonna keep sinking their claws deeper into what used to be ours.
I’ll see you all again in four years, same time, same place, same fucking rigamarole
It’s why I stopped voting altogether. Last time I voted in general elections was 2008. Last time I primaried was for Bernie in 16. Only time I ever donated money, too.
Fuck the Democrats. They made it clear they want Republican voters more than than they want me
Liberals seem to get real uppity when you remind them how actual holders of leftist beliefs in the general US population are almost nonexistent and all third party votes added together wouldn’t have saved Harris.
Although if liberals were capable of using logic, they wouldn’t be liberals. You even see it in their hilarious Lemmy tantrums, they are genuinely so confused and lost.
If only leftists were there saying exactly what they were doing wrong and exactly what would happen for literally the last four years.
Oh wait. We were. Weird how Marx and Lenin continue to be proven right by history again and again.
You might want to check your own logic there.
Liberal tears have been very tasty today. Salter than usual
“It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them,” Sanders said in a statement Wednesday. “First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well. While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.”
Dems 100% sold them out and assumed they’d still vote D as long as a handful of issues were different.
The worse the Republicans got, the worse Dems got. Because they could get away with it and it increased donations.
The thing is it just energizes republicans and depresses Dem turnout.
If the goal is winning elections is a terrible strategy.
If you only care about money and the election is just a grift to you tho, it’s a win/win. The result of the election doesn’t really matter.
and now the ratchet effect will kick in again:
“See? The people WANT the republicans. That’s why they keep electing republicans. Therefore, if we want to be competitive, we must become more like republicans.”
There was never really that much risk of Dems losing voters to the Repubs (at least as long as Trump was the R candidate). The real damage came from Dems losing enthusiasm.
The thing that has driven me crazy for so long is this is the situation in America.
There are 70M Americans that will vote Republican and nothing will ever change their minds
There are 70M Americans that will vote Democrat and nothing will ever change their minds
There are a couple million independent undecided voters that everyone goes after
Then there are 100M+ people that sit out the election and no one seems to try to understand what would make them vote. It’s so crazy that we have just decided that there are red states and blue states and that’s how it is. A party that could retain some of either party while activating half the people that sit out would be a force to reckon with.
As the Democratic Party has tried to find some way to win again they have gone after which group? The handful of independents and the 70M republicans that aren’t going to vote for them ever. And the people sitting it out probably aren’t looking for them to shift right, if so they would be republicans.
This. I just had a very long argument with someone else that completely and utterly failed to grasp this simple concept. Trump ran as the most conservative conservative ever and his base loved him for it. Harris ran as the most conservative liberal ever and her base gritted their teeth and grudgingly trudged to the polls. And then the DNC is shocked and flabbergasted that they didn’t get a better turnout.
To be fair, they should’ve voted Dem, but instead sat out against their own best interest.
The electorate is incredibly fucking stupid.
The strategy made sense to anyone with half a brain. It seems I overestimated the median American, though.
You’re right. Lot of people sat out because of inflation, which was driven by corporate greed, which of course a Republican is not going to address. The electorate needs a fucking education. Prices have stopped climbing aggressively. They’re not going to go back down. Wage growth is the next step, which is another thing a Republican will not address. Americans cutting off their nose to spite their face.
But the billionaires don’t have millions of votes.
They can control the narratives. Democrats haven’t done enough to break the “both sides are the same” narrative, this is a 32 year problem. It breeds apathy and apathy helps autocrats.
I fucking love Bernie. He needs a protege.
Not positive, but I think AOC is the closest thing right now in terms of message and visibility.
She should start a Democratic Socialist party as a leader, with Bernie as the spiritual leader/Grandpa. Start convincing sitting Democrats to switch parties. Now is the time
Too soon. Wait 2 years.
Waiting is never a good strategy.
It can be if your opponent is looking to hang you first chance they get.
I don’t buy this. In Nebraska there was an election between an independent union leader and a career politician. The union leader lost.
The consensus seems to be that people that voted democrat in 2020 voted republican this time because they experienced inflation under Biden that think it was his fault.
The consensus seems to be that people that voted democrat in 2020 voted republican this time because they experienced inflation under Biden that think it was his fault.
What consensus is saying this? Outside of Latino men and first time voters shifting to Trump, most analysis (so far) is that the Democrats lost around 10-15 million votes from 2020, compared to Trump losing only 2 million. If all the Dems/Undecideds moved to Trump, he would have not lost voters.
What was the Red vs Blue turnout in Nebraska in 2020 vs 2024, I bet that would go a long way to explain why the union leader lost.
because they experienced inflation under Biden that think it was his fault.
yeah, that’s problem all around the world, people are too dumb to understand how two years of covid and ongoing war in europe affects our lives and demand that someone just takes care of it.
so in a year we will get populist pro-russian billionaire prime minister who will just start dropping more inflation money around and tells people “see? i will take care of you!” (while stealing some of these money for himself, of course)
And Harris was too stupid to just come out and say that she’d do that. Not Trump though. See that huge sign behind him at rallies? “Trump will fix it”.
The dem strategy should have been to bombast like Trump, but more. Make America greatER. Would have really taken the wind or of his sails, IMO.
In Nebraska
Uh, that’s your answer. It’s not a magic incantation to win regardless of the odds, but in a presidential election that’s by default 50/50?
If the problem was that democrats did not support the working class enough then why didn’t the union leader win? This isn’t magic or rocket science. Many people thought democrats were responsible for the high inflation because they don’t know macro economics.
It’s not a magic incantation to win regardless of the odds
Sorry, I guess I should have said this twice. You don’t win Nebraska just by touching up the progressive message a little. Propaganda still exists, party loyalty still exists, racism still exists. But he did a hell of a lot better than any slow and steady liberal candidate would do. And in races that aren’t in deep red states, doing better is enough to win.
If the problem was that democrats did not support the working class enough then why didn’t the union leader win?
He had the albatross of a poor up-ballot candidate around his neck. Same reason most Democrats lost: The party didn’t get people to go out and vote because they didn’t appeal to workers, which hurt every candidate that wasn’t Republican.
Voters are literally saying it was because of inflation during Biden presidency.
Democrats lost because they planned to tax the billionaire class so the billionaires funded the campaign against them.
Except Democrats outspent Republicans by a large margin. This wasn’t an election lost from a lack of donations.
Donations are on the books. Things like Elon Musk buying votes are not on the books. The billionaire class did not want Harris to tax them.
I think what’s missing is the anger. Trump can tap into anger. Bernie could also. The independent didn’t have the base of anger that the GOP did
Anger definitely motivated some but I know many moderates that were convinced democrats were responsible for the inflation.
But they were right! Dems did contribute to inflation (not as much as Trump but still)…Student loan forgiveness not explicitly tied to higher taxes on rich and corps, cutting back on subsidies to defense, oil, and corn syrup, while also not breaking up monopolies which create an environment of price gouging gave merit to the “democrats give out free cash and devalue it all”
Democrats did cause inflation. They did it by not clipping the wings of our oligarchs when supplying aid.
Biden kept his promise “nothing will fundamentally change” and the American electorate unimpeachably rejected it.
The main thing with Sanders campaign was it didn’t feel like a “democrats” vs “republicans”
It was us vs the billionaires
But the DNC could never bear to alienate their biggest donors.
Biden was calling out price gouging throughout his whole presidency.
Harris lost this election because she said she was going to tax the billionaires and so they funded the campaign against her.
For you to throw her under the bus after the billionaires campaigned against her is just going to ensure no future politicians will challenge the billionaire class again.
First of all, it is hard to beat career politicians. They have a track record, experience. Second, you’re in Nebraska. Third, and most importantly, the goal is not for a single person to win, but to build a strong organization that will make people’s lives better, and that would over time get more people to vote, because they would understand that it matters.
In other words, big corporate Democrats are mediocre at best, and often much worse than that, so of course people stay home. But if you think they’re the wave of the future, hey, do whatever you like.
First of all, it is hard to beat career politicians.
This counters what Bernie said.
Second, you’re in Nebraska.
I’m not in Nebraska. Just giving one of many examples of politicians that support the working class losing because of the billionaire class.
Third, and most importantly, the goal is not for a single person to win, but to build a strong organization that will make people’s lives better, and that would over time get more people to vote, because they would understand that it matters.
Scapegoating the democrats that tried to tax the billionaire class prevents this from happening.
But if you think they’re the wave of the future, hey, do whatever you like.
I don’t think they’re the wave of the future. I think the billionaire class countered Harris because they didn’t want to be taxed like she laid out in her plans and now people are trying to scapegoat them, ensuring it will be less likely that the next person will try it again. Just like the billionaire class wants.
don’t worry, we’ll replay that record again in a year while they blame biden again
While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they’re right.
Goddamn this hits the exact thing that Democrats really need to learn.
There’s a ton of emotion in this nation. Given:
- The opioid crisis where the people responsible are in perpetual litigation.
- The wars we fought that costed us deaths of young people who had lives ahead of them, and scarred millions more. All so that a few rich asshats could profit.
- The corruption of large companies as they swindle the working class, only to watch legislators continue to profit off of insider trading.
And that’s just to name a few. There’s a ton of emotion in this nation. And Trump, for better or worse, taps into that emotion. The cut and dry democrats, they keep telling us, “The system will work, this time” and you have a public that just screams “well how soon is now then?”
Democrats cannot just keep tapping on the system as it currently stands when the system so obviously doesn’t deliver. There are hungry democrats looking for change to the system to form a more better system that will serve them, and the party just keeps dressing the bones of the long gone bird from days long pass.
Sanders fucking sinks the nail in a single stroke of the hammer on this. And Republicans are using that emotion, that pent up distrust of the system as it is, to move people in their direction. The entire point of this living government is to have a government, to have a system, that matches the people who are alive and having to deal with it. Sanders sees that and cut and dry Democrats keep going “but Trump will ruin the system that doesn’t work for you!!”
Goddamn, one day, they will learn. Democrats will pick up on what Sanders is saying one day. But holy shit, they are going to clearly take an incredibly long and winding road to get there. I don’t agree with where Republicans want to take us. I don’t agree with how Republicans want to get there. But goddamn, we’ve got to hand it to them that they’re actively pointing out the exact same thing the Sanders is pointing out. “Status Quo ain’t going to fucking work anymore.” The sooner the traditional Democrats learn that, the faster they can come back to being relevant.
The single best thing the Dems can do now is take a chapter out of the Republican playbook and obstruct everything, full tilt, no good barred. Inject themselves into everything, all committees, panels, investigations, reviews, etc, and block. See how much Trump can accomplish when the shoe’s on the other foot.
Goddamn, one day, they will learn. Democrats will pick up on what Sanders is saying one day.
In the next government, we’re not having elections thanks to Harris botching it for everyone. The RBG of presidential candidates. Thinking you know best until it’s too late and now we need to plan for the fact you made things worse.
The RBG of presidential candidates.
If holding on too long is RBG’s legacy, then wouldn’t Biden be the RBG of presidential candidates? He held on until after the primaries before dropping out.
We need to MAGA up the liberals. They think liberals were insufferable before, we about had enough of this establishment bullshit.
I don’t know about MAGA, but the Democratic party definitely needs to go hard into the same kind of obstructionism that the Republicans have been doing. No validation of insane policies, no negotiating with terrorists.
And when everyone accuses the Democrats of not cooperating, they need to just stay quiet and stay the course. For the next four years, the legislature is closed.
No. Don’t stay quiet. Blame the Republicans!
Republicans can be evil and Democrats work with them an compromise on killing half of them.
Democrats consider maybe paying postal workers and Republicans stop it and cry how it’s unconstitutional to have people paid for their labor.
If the Democrats got a spine and told Republicans “Just shut up, you complained about breaking segregation.” And get things done, we’d be a fucking utopia.
Ngl, Neoliberal Populism sounds bad.
It’s sucks so bad. So fucking bad.
Authoritarian Left sounds bad too, but it would nice if they executed the rule of law instead of making excuses to remain politically neutral.
I’m pretty sure that’s what we were trying to do back in 2016, but it was her turn.
Check reddit and .world and you’ll see the people doing that.
The “shut up and fall in line while we do nothing for you” bullshit is what got them. Add a full support for a genocide and doing nothing to stop it. A lot of people voted for Trump out of spite to the Dems. They know Trump is worse, but they got burnt by the Dems so many times and they’re done with them. I personally voted Harris, but in the back of my mind this is the very last time I’m voting for the " lesser of two evils". I’m just fucking done.
alienation
Careful now, that sounds like one of them there socialism words.
No one remembers your name
When you’re estranged
When you’re estranged
When you’re estraaaaaanged
I think the time has arrived for party diversification. If the DNC wants my vote back they’ll need to earn it back. I have thrice voted for them to avoid a Trump Presidency, and 2/3 of those attempts were unsuccessful.
No longer will my vote be held hostage by the people that will squander it. From now on I vote for who I want, not against who I don’t, since it apparently doesn’t matter anyway. At least this way I vote on my own terms.
Bernie is too good for us, we need someone like him with a shot at gaining popularity for policy stances not backed by one of the large establishment parties.
It really says something when the media browbeated minorities actively harmed by neoliberal policies into voting Democrat and never third party, and third party didn’t even sway anything in any state.
I voted Green in 2016 in California and I regretted it. I voted Democrat in 2020 (knowing it doesn’t matter, I live California), despite Sanders getting shafted a second time. I voted Harris in 2024, and I swallowed my morals to do it.
And I got nothing but Trump rolling out his plans his oligarchs planned since 1980.
Exactly. What did it accomplish? Jack shit.
The way to affect change in elections apparently is to unite the larger population around a single person/cause/issue. We just need to find ours and convince enough people.
Personally, I just want a country where we actually let people different than us live and prosper. Why the fuck is that such a hard thing to have???
I have family and friends that are POC, gay, trans, and/or physically/mentally disabled. Why should they have to put up with policies and leaders that vilify them for simply being who they are?
Why do we accept normalized medical debt?
Why do we accept a constantly eroding education system?
Why do we not scale minimum wage consistent to inflation?
I know the real answers, but I think more of the population needs to vote based on the results of them asking themselves why this is the norm and find the candidate willing to fix that shit.
I have a feeling it won’t be an establishment Democrat.
