Just following on from this: https://lemmy.nz/post/1134134
Ex-Tesla employee reveals shocking details on worker conditions: ‘You get fired on the spot.’
I’m curious about how far this goes.
You can’t get fired on the spot in NZ, unless you like, shot someone or set the building on fire or something really bad.
But it seems that in the US, there’s little to no protections for employees when their bosses are dickheads?
Also, any personal stories of getting fired on the spot?
We have quite a lot of employee protections (not as much as Europe but a lot more than people realize), it’s the enforcement that is the issue. While you can be fired without notice for any legal reason, if you are fired for an illegal reason or an illegal reason played a role in their decision to fire you, you can get quite a nice settlement from that. However, if you are fired without a good reason, the employer has to pay for your unemployment, so the majority of employers will only fire an employee if it falls under a reason that makes you ineligible for unemployment like poor performance or attendance (and labor attorneys can often sniff out when an employer is lying about it to screw you out of unemployment). Contrary to several other countries, employees can just quit without notice or even informing their employer, as at will employment goes both ways
Edit: Lots of other replies mention this, so I’m just repeating things…
“At-will” employment is actually a state-level law, and at least one state (Montana) isn’t an at-will state. That doesn’t invalidate your general points, just think it’s an interesting tidbit.
Don’t know how Americans do it honestly. At will states, no parental leave or even maternity leave(this is mind blowing plus add on the cost to birth a baby at a hospital like 🤯🤯), 2 weeks vacation, no sick time, poor insurance, etc. Read an article that says their minimum wage hasn’t increased in over a DECADE.
So odd and I find I work with a fair amount of people from NA who “humble brag” about working so much or it’s been years since I had a day off… just don’t get it. 🤷.
Just because it’s not legally required doesn’t mean plenty of jobs don’t offer those. It still sucks, but you’re retarded if you think the average american job doesn’t provide at least some. Not to mention the fact that states and cities can and do legislate their own minimum wages.
2 weeks vacation
You mean NO 2 weeks vacation, right? We have no mandatory minimums. It’s just a perk of many jobs, and not a perk of many other jobs.
they exist, but breaking them will net you a letter from the court telling you to stop breaking the law, and like a 1000$ fine so…
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So what they’re referring to in that instance “you can be fired on the spot” there are states that have laws that say employees are basically working “at will” and can be fired without explanation or cause unless the employee is apart of a protected class and is fired for being in a protected class, an example of this is a member of the LGBTQ+ community being fired for their sexual orientation. There are states that protect against this but it’s a state by state basis.
Basically the case, yes. It varies state by state and there are some federal laws but, the enforcement is lacking to say the least and funding tends to be gutted to make it worse. Effectively, since Reagan, there’s been an unending attack on labor rights and regulations. Currently, multiple states are passing laws to bring back child labor and workers who try to unionize are getting axed with no real repercussions.
Got a source on the child labour thing? Not doubting you, but as a non-American I’m confused as to how the hell youse aren’t in open revolt.
EDIT: Responding individually later. In short, fuck. In long, thanks all for sending me those links, I’m gonna go wash my eyes out with bleach and attempt to un-know all that I now know
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_labor_laws_in_the_United_States
By 2023, states such as New Jersey and Arkansas had loosened child labor restrictions following the lessening of the COVID-19 pandemic severity, with violations increasing nationwide as a tight labor market increased worker demand. Modifications included lowering the age in which children could work certain jobs, expanding the number of and timing of hours they could be required to work, often to include school time, and shielding businesses from civil liability for work-related injuries, illnesses, or deaths sustained by such workers.
Why there are no revolt? Brainwashing. Child labor is part of glorious capitalism, worker’s rights is hideous communism.
Copied from the last link: “As of June, legislators have proposed at least 19 child labor rollbacks over the past two years. Of those, seven have been signed into law in five states (Arkansas, Iowa, Michigan, New Hampshire, and New Jersey). Most of the legislation has been authored and advanced by Republican lawmakers. However, Democrats in New Jersey played an integral role in passing a 2022 law that increases the number of hours children can work, and Democratic Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer declined to veto a pair of laws enacted in 2022—one to lower the minimum age for working at a liquor store and another the age to serve alcohol.”
https://abc7chicago.com/child-labor-laws-work-permit-wisconsin/13673003/
https://www.commondreams.org/news/mississippi-poultry-plant-teen-dies
Yeah… Others really beat me to it. It’s pretty fucked up.
You likely won’t see this on the coasts, where riots would definitely occur, but throughout the middle of the country all kinds of wild shit can happen and we’re so disconnected from each other at this point that it basically feels like it’s happening in another country.
The union is weak is how it’s being got away with is my take on it.
What was it like before Regan?
It was still a constant fight but, union membership was at 23.3%, annual strikes and work stoppages were measured in hundreds, wages increased proportionally to productivity gained through technology, and executive salaries were 5-10x average workers’.
Reagan, who had benefitted from membership in the Screen Actors Guild, launched a political war against unions and labor rights, starting with the firing of 11k striking air traffic controllers who he banned from working for the Federal government (a ban only lifted in 1993) and dissolved their union (a fun sidenote to this being that PATCO were the only union that endorsed Reagan and a final “fuck you” cherry on top was the renaming of the DC airport to Reagan National). This showed business that, at least under a GOP government, strikebreaking was again allowed.
All that precipitated rapid decline in union membership for workers in the US, leading to a cycle of increased share of wealth to the top, which was used to buy more legislation to erode labor’s power and roll back protections, which increased the share of wealth to the top…ad infinitum. Now, union membership is 11.3%, exec pay is 400x that of workers, and compensation has completely decoupled from productivity and stagnated.
Uhh that hurts to read. Because I imagine the unions must have otherwise made up for the lack of a legal safety net
And a reminder that Biden, supported by the dems including “good” politicians like AOC (lol) smashed the rail strike just this year
It’s bad folks
She was doing what the unions wanted
Do you disagree?
“Preventing us from exerting our right to strike as union workers, Congress has imposed this contract which was voted down by most of the freight rail workers in the United States,” said freight conductor Nick Wurst
Looks like that’s a “no”.
what could you possibly be talking about
This exactly. Breaking that strike was pure betrayal and clearly showed that, while more left than others in the Democratic party, she’s still going to go to bat for business over workers.
Oh, yes I heard about the child labour thing. That’s so fucked.
Not really… and what little we do have usually goes unenforced.
You have to already be wealthy in order to litigate, and the workers aren’t wealthy. So the laws go unenforced. Most theft in the US occurs in the form of wage theft perpetrated by employers.
We have a lot of laws, enforcement is the thing we lack.
Enforcement AND more laws. You can’t enforce PTO and parental leave laws if you don’t pass them first.
That’s why we have unions. And why republicans work really hard to prevent unions.
in the 80s Reagan said “government is the problem”, and it’s been war on unions ever since from the Republicans… they stonewall everything related to worker rights they can’t destroy outright…
and all the power and money just keep going up the corporate ladder into the boardroom
The way to get rid of unions is to have better employment regulations. Unions aren’t very common here.
Yes, US employees do not enjoy what first world countries consider “worker’s rights”.
If you aren’t part of a union in the US, you’re probably working without a contract in an agreement called ‘at will’ employment where this is 100% legal. This is how the vast majority of jobs operate
There’s a single benefit there, and that’s not having to read through contracts which are boring as all hell, but totally necessary for a modern society.
No, but you’d be forgiven for thinking so
The vast majority of the US has “at will employment”. It means you can be fired any time for whatever reason…or even for no reason.
However, there are a few reasons you cannot be fired. You can’t be fired because of your race, gender, sexuality, age, whether or not you are pregnant.
HOWEVER, because an employer does not have to give a reason for firing you, they could theoretically do something like fire you for something like being gay and pretend it was for some other reason. If you can prove that they fired you for being gay, you can go to court, but that’s exceptionally difficult to impossible to do. So really they can fire you for anything.
Some jobs are unionized, making it harder for employers to fire you willy nilly though. Most jobs are not unionized in the US.
Goddam that sucks. I see why unions are such a big deal.
Is this widely practiced or do you get nice employers who set themselves extra rules?
At-will employment is the name of the game in the US. I wasn’t fired personally but I found out someone at my workplace was let go and I was caught off guard how immediately it took effect - never even got a chance to say goodbye.
Being fired on the spot hardly ever happens. Usually the problem is that employers demand additional work for no increase in pay or better working conditions while maintaining a toxic or outright dangerous work environment because they know most people won’t quit or even complain. That goes double for immigrants who are either undocumented, and have little recourse, or need their job to maintain their visa. Being fired on the spot sounds sort of quaint compared to what we usually see happening in American workplaces.
That bad huh, goddam.
