I’ve noticed in the explosion that we are getting duplicate communities in multiple instances. This is ultimately gonna hinder community growth as eventually communities like ‘cats’ will exist in hundreds of places all with their own micro groups, and some users will end up subscribing to duplicates in their list.
A: could we figure out a system to let our communities know about the duplicates as a sticky so that users can better find each other?
B: I think this is the best solution, could a ‘super community’ method be developed under which communities can join or be parented to under that umbrella and allow us to subscribe to the super community under which the smaller ones nest as subs? This would allow the communities to stay somewhat fractured across multiple instances which can in turn protect a community from going dark if a server dies, while still keeping the broader audience together withing a syndicated feed?
I think a simple solution to this problem would be to be able to integrate several subscribed communities into a single timeline, similar to Mastodon Lists.
I would call this feature ‘Mingling’ :)
You’re already posting in a super community!
Aww shucks bloodfart ☺️
While I am on board with the idea, I don’t think it should be a programmatic solution at the community level. Rather, either the third party app or the server (let’s say Beehaw for an example) should allow for the option to create collections based on community identifiers. It would be more of a display function.
The reason I think this needs to be done at the user level is because everyone has their own organization models. At one point, I had all my subreddits aggregated by Library of Congress Categories (since may home library is organized that way). Some people may want to put c/Beatles in a Music category, while others may want Bands or even others by genre.
What would be nice is if the communities had tags to identify their subject matter. For instance, c/Beatles could be #britishinvasion #music #beatles #band #60srock etc. That way people could look by tag and aggregate that way (plus it would make it easier to find c/GeorgeHarrison c/PaulMcCartney c/JohnLennon c/RingoStarr ;-) )
The way I would see this play out is that the user would have to option to create a “Super Community” and give it a name. Then there would be a search by name, tag, subject etc. and the results would have a toggle that would add, or subscribe and add, that community to the super community.
A solution like this would preserve the sovereignty and integrity of each of the servers. All the servers are offering are possible some more discrete identifiers (should they choose) to make themselves more findable. The control is placed on the user to organize and curate their selections.
I don’t mind responding to different communities with similar subjects. I did it all the time on Reddit. But it would be nice to, say, focus on my “Apple” super community or my “Worldbuilding” super community. When you have eclectic interests that span a vast array of topics, being able to aggregate “like topics” is a boon.
I agree with this post 100%. Super Communities need to be able to be shared too - I’m sure there are some folk who will just want a quick start and would love to just subscribe to a premade “top 10 /c/technology communities” or something. And then it could be expanded later etc.
Honestly the multi Reddit model works really well. When I see a multi that I like, I can clone it and change it how I need. It basically acts like a fork.
Yes, this. It allows decentralization to still exist protecting users from future reddit overlords, while still allowing each user to customize their experience by aggregating what matters to them personally. It also makes it super easy to remove one specific instance of a Beatles “sub” when it gets too raunchy, racy or just not what you personally want to see anymore.
It needs to work both ways to have real utility for advanced user topics. Having a distributed community limits the chances of accessing useful specialization for fringe topics. This is the main reason I started using reddit.
Like I start asking questions on reddit about optimising the Linux CPU scheduler and most people haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about. Within 12 hours I get a post with someone’s 59 page thesis covering the exact subject in more detail than I would ever find on my own. The more divided the group is, the less likely one is to encounter specialization, and therefore the less utility of the platform. Bridging users can’t fill the information gap.
Doesn’t that go against Lemmy’s philosophy? I see where you’re coming from, and I agree there should be some way to find all related communities. But putting them all under the same umbrella makes all depend on the “meta-community” and its administration.
Well yes and no. I think the point is to avoid 500 arbitrary half dead Cat communities, or to help users find there niche for their town or interest so you aren’t left with multiple dead communities reposting questions all over the place hoping to find the community with the answer by sheer dunb luck while also thinking that Lemmy is dead.
Finding out that the official photography sub lives on glasgow.xyz is a big ask. So maybe it would be a good start to keep things fractured but allow an easy way to group them into a feed like the way multis work. Looking at my subscribed list is a horror show right now and I shudder to think of the infighting when three growing communities butt heads trying to spam each other’s users to grow there own. If I can organise my coms into categories and folders that would be a start. Maybe creating feeds by tag? And subscribing to tags?
Regarding the 500 arbitrary half dead Cat communities, I wonder about expecting hosts to monitor the communities they are hosting and removing them or archiving them in some way when they die. And if a host is not doing so, that could be considered poor moderation on their part. Not a complete solution, but maybe of help?
I think something like this would probably be done user side, maybe with some option to share it, much like the “multireddit” feature of reddit. Each individual community is still moderated and run by their mods and local instance, but the user can choose to aggregate multiple mags/communities together.
There absolutely needs to be a good way of finding communities here on lemmy, that would probably mitigate the problem a bit. I also like your sticky solution linking to similar communities, but it would be great if this happened automatically (or semiautomatically) when creating communities. As in: oh you are trying to create a “technology” community on your instance? Did you have a look at these ones with the same name on federated instances?
For what its worth I just spend this morning scraping a list of communities from the dozen largest Lemmy instances. ANd last night for no good reason other than it existed in Reddit, I created !lemmy411@lemmy.ca
Today’s Lemmyverse Community Listing: https://lemmy.ca/post/612259
Love the idea. The drive.google.com is requesting permission, can you make it more open? Or paste it in a pastebin?
Whups. try now.
Are you aware of the community browser? Works great for finding communities across all instances
i am actually aware of it. but i think it (or something similar) or something similar should be included in the ‘new community’ dialogue, to curb the amount of new, duplicate, communities being created…,…
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For this to happen every single instance will have to fetch every community from every instance to aggregate posts and make sure new similar community is added which isn’t feasible (I think).
Give it some time, and I think organically 1-2 most popular communities will emerge for each specific topic and people will then just subscribe to those ones.
Give it some time, and I think organically 1-2 most popular communities will emerge for each specific topic and people will then just subscribe to those ones.
This is kind of what I was thinking, too. There’s no limit to how many duplicate subs there can be on Reddit but that didn’t stop people from eventually finding the “main” subs. Lemmy just needs a critical mass of users first, so that the clear winners are easily seen. With numbers being so low right now, there’s no clear winner among duplicates.
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I know nothing about programming, so I’m kind of hoping someone involved can take this further.
Edit: to add, I also only discovered Lemmy a few days ago, so my grasp on the whole process is tenuous at best.
I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but it could just be a UI thing handled by/for each user, that way moderation and control will stay where they are
Basically I could make a group of communities/magazines, for example
selfhosted@kbin.social
selfhost@lemmy.ml
selfhosted@lemmy.world
selfhosting@chirp.social
selfhosted@lemmy.ml
selfhosting@slrpnk.netFor browsing, up/downvoting, and commenting it could be totally transparent. When you want to make your own thread it could just have you select the specific magazine/community from a drop down.
This wouldn’t fix the problem of seeing multiple duplicate posts from each.
I think this is the ideal solution, but you should be able to share the groups you create with others, exactly like multireddits. That way, collections of these groups could be made available to others, for them to add to their feed.
I was wondering the same thing. This is one of those double edge features. On the positive side if a community moderator is no good, or an instance is getting too big, there is the simple option to just make a new community on a different instance. The downside is having a bunch of duplicate small communities is not always a better option than one big centralized one.
I like the idea of super communities, but I am not sure that is even possible with the fediverse/lemmy. There might be some way to do this manually with instances dedicated to a certain topic, but that seems like it would be overkill. Also it would be interesting to see who would end up responsible for moderating the super community.
Maybe an option would be to have a virtual “parent” community, or a community group that communities can join. For example, the supercommunity “memes” could contain meme communities on different instances, aggregating posts and comments when queried. Posting would only be possible to a given community though.
This brings an issue with moderation however. If a participating community would be taken over and used to post spam, there would be no clear mechanism to exclude that community from the parent community. Perhaps it would be better if these parent communities where user curated, so the creator would add one or more communities to the parent, allowing other users to subscribe/unsubscribe from the parent at will.
Maybe treat it more like tags, and if a community within a tag is spamming a user can still hide that community independently.
That’s even better! Would the communities tag themselves in that case?
I also think option B is a good idea. It could split up the load of a large topic.
As for maintaining the distributed philosophy of Lemmy, I think it could possibly work by moderators of each community vote on/approve other members of a super community, like and alliance or union. They may want to agree on a standard set of rules. Then if you subscribe to one, it can pick up the others automatically. And if a community/moderators go rogue then the members of the super community moderators could vote to expel that community.
This keeps it still mostly simple/automatic for most users while allowing for a decentralized way to group communities and handle bad actors.
Not sure how feasible it is on the technical side or how it would fit into ActivityPub. But hopefully we find some solution to these fractured communities.
I had the same thought here: https://kbin.social/m/linux@lemmy.ml/t/9828/uhhh-what-do-I-call-the-subreddits#entry-comment-42869
B sounds like a sensible solution to the issue, but maybe not so much in a thing that communities “join”, but rather “connect” to. The former sounds like a centralized thing that has to be hosted somewhere, the latter being something that exists purely through the communities that are part of it. However, I suspect this needs to be a feature within the actual fediverse type protocol that all those instances (including Mastodon) use, to make this an actual possibility.
Maybe using tags? A community can tag itself in areas it wants to both be included in and excluded from. And allow users to surf tag feeds to comment and upvote on, also allow us to organise our communities within groups in our own way?
I had the same idea. Tags are already there to gather posts related to a topic in a single page. The difference in experience would be the curation reddit’s subreddit system allows. Curation and moderation. Otherwise, an agreed upon tagging scheme should do the trick if the only concern is subscribing to topics.
What about allowing communities to federate with others?
Eg. The mods at gaming@lemmy.ml and gaming@beehaw.org could decide their communities have the same audience and ideology. They choose to federate with each other so anyone that subscribes to either or both will get posts for both. Mods will then work together to moderate.
Then if 1 set of mods decide to change their policies or go in a different direction they can then de-federate and break the 2 communities apart again.
I think this would be the easiest way honestly. It seems the least extra work or changes. Mods don’t even need to work together, just with their own posts. If they’re too different on their own, they won’t federate anyways.
If people really want a supergroup, it would in this situation only take a new community that does nothing but federate existing ones. But it may not even be needed.
I think just being able in my client to “aggregate” different communities/magazines (I’m writing this from kbin) would be great. Like multireddits. This way, everyone can decide for themselves what smaller communities they want to subscribe to. I think neither Lemmy’s clients nor kbin support this right now, unfortunately.
I think you can subscribe to individual magazines on kbin, then just show your subscribed magazines. This means you still have to subscribe to multiple communities. Eventually, it should settle with better modded ones reaching critical mass after some time. Everything is in flux right now, what you’re looking for is better done when communities are stable.
Yes, that works of course. What I like to do is look at a specific topic when I want to. Let’s say, I’m in the mood to only check out literature/book related stuff. I’d like to open my “Multimagazine” (I saw someone call it a rack, which I think is a nice analogy) where I only see posts that belong to this topic.
The only thing that’s a bit painful now is finding narrow topics. Reddit had grown so big, you can almost guarantee to look for niche topics. On here, you’re better asking /m/random.
In a year or so, if fediverse can grow nicely, maybe we’ll be asking top level instance to recommend the best community, and rebuild your niche collection.
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This is what I want. A way for users to create their own “lists” similar to multireddits, which come up on their feeds as part of a super-community, and then they can share that list with other users.
No hassle for the moderators. No change to the system outside of the feature’s own self-contained stuff.
So what should be easier now is finding those communities/magazines, maybe on a post of one of these communities with links to the other ones
That’s exactly what I thought of. Here’s my proposal (though I don’t know if this can be implemented in the technology or if it would be compatible with ActivityPub):
Suppose we have two similar communities (i.e., north.pole and north.star, but they both tackle northness but in different instances). The mod from either communities would send an invite to the other to form a “group” or “federate” or “ally”. Now, if the other mod approves, here’s what happens:
Whenever you post something in a community that has a group, it would be synced with the communities in other instances that are allied to it, including upvotes, comments, and other metrics. So if I post in north.pole, people in north.star could see my post too because we’re in an “alliance” and vice versa. They can also upvote my post and I can upvote theirs. There would just be a sign (probably a flair-like design) that would tell users in other instances from which instance the post came from.
With regards to moderation, here’s how: they are basically separate communities with content syncing between them. Suppose a user in north.star posts something offensive and against north.pole community rules. The mods in north.pole can block that post from appearing in the north.pole feed.
And here’s an unrelated gripe: there should be an instance-standard “ouster poll” for communities that are dead. With what I see right now in the influx of Lemmy users, many communities are dead and users are willing to revive them but they can’t because the moderators of those communities are already inactive and redundancy is a pain in “advertising” membership in Lemmy already. There should be like a poll of interested users where they would agree to “oust” the inactive mod (of course there’s also a qualification for “inactive”) and replace them with probably a democratically “elected” moderator.
I don’t like the idea of a voting system for mods, as it can be gamed very easily by bot accounts. Democracy is sadly under threat due to AI, and so I think the wall-gardened approach might be necessary: users choose an instance of north that suits them, and if the mod is a dick, then those users let the mods of the other north instances (under that super community) know, and the mods of other instances make the decision.
Great ideas, sounds ideal to me
There is no problem if there are more communities with the same topic. The ones wich are better moderated and actively updated will eventually gain in popularity and stand out
Could potentially be hundreds though, and puts a lot of work on users to look around for the best one -> most likely the communities in bigger instances will win out.
This is a discoverability problem that can be solved separately from the duplication “problem” though. Reddit has all the same duplication, there’s /r/tech and /r/technology, there’s /r/DnD and /r/dndnext, there’s suddenly 3 million aita communities. What makes people not sweat this at Reddit is that subreddit search is MUCH MUCH better than Lemmy’s community search. You always find the biggest subreddit first, and there’s no danger of finding only the small/irrelevant community because the big/main one didn’t show up in your search for confusing federation reasons.
If community search was effortless and worked to discover the biggest relevant community irrespective of the server it’s on, I think people would immediately stop caring about community duplication, similar to how it’s rarely cited as a problem on Reddit even though it’s rampant there as well.
Yup, essentially the same thing happens on Reddit and things always seem to work out in the end.
Maybe. But until then I need a possibility to aggregate several into one…
I expect we’ll see a lot of this with he Reddit drama going on, eventually it’ll stabilize.
