President Vladimir Putin said on Tuesday that Russia would be prepared to talk to Ukraine, the United States and Europe about the future of Ukraine if they wanted to, but that Moscow would defend its…
  • CarbonScored [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
    55·
    11 months ago

    Hasn’t this been Russia’s position the entire time? I’ve only ever seen them actively trying to have peace negotiations over the past decade, much to the chagrin and mockery of Ukraine and the West who declare it either SUBTERFUGE or WEAKNESS.

    This headline in a western news outlet is, to me, more of an indicator to me that the West is now bored with this proxy war, wants to end it and is looking to save face.

      • MoreAmphibians [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        43·
        11 months ago

        Is that what you call invading a sovereign country?

        It’s not even like this is the first time Putin has invaded another sovereign country,

        Ukraine isn’t a sovereign country and hasn’t been since the US couped their democratically elected leader. You can’t be a sovereign country if a foreign country has veto power over your elections.

          • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            22·
            11 months ago

            This is just elevated whataboutism

            The condition of the Ukrainian state is literally the crux of the entire conflict since 2014, what are you on about?

            and that Ukraines’s democracy has been subverted by USA, that doesn’t make a military invasion and armed occupancy a righteous or even justifiable act.

            It does when that subverted state begins to suppress ethnic minorities and political opposition, your argument rests on willful ignorance of the conflict and the Ukrainian state’s actions in Donbass and the genocidal threats it regularly issues to Crimeans who DO NOT AND HAVE NEVER considered themselves Ukrainian

            Sorry bud, but intervening in a vicious civil war brought about by the violent overthrow of an actual democratically elected government, is not the same thing as unprovoked aggression for the sake of land grabs as claimed by historically brain-dead liberals

            Why doesn’t Putin just say that? Why would he insist on mislabelling this as an “SMO” instead of a war of liberation?

            SMO is just a technical political title for the operation, Putin’s rhetoric concerning Crimea and the separatist states has been quite clearly centered on unification, independence referendums and international recognition for their secession from Ukraine

            Are you asserting in the whole two years of this war Putin has never mentioned the separatist republics???

          • MoreAmphibians [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            20·
            11 months ago

            This is just elevated whataboutism

            I’m not sure how correcting the term that you repeatedly used is “whataboutism”. Surely you meant something when you wrote “sovereign country” multiple times? It’s just inaccurate, it would be like referring to the US as a kingdom or referring to Washington D.C. as a country.

            Why doesn’t Putin just say that? Why would he insist on mislabelling this as an “SMO” instead of a war of liberation?

            Modern countries don’t like to call their wars a war for some reason. The “Special Military Operation” labeling in particular is based Ukraine labeling their war against the Donbas Republics as an “Anti-Terrorist Operation”. Russia did state that one of their goals was the liberation of the Donbas Republics.

            https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-says-first-phase-ukraine-operation-mostly-complete-focus-now-donbass-2022-03-25/

            And why wouldn’t Russia use the same means to subvert their subversion instead of resorting to bombing civilians?

            Russia is far worse at subverting countries than the US is. The US has massive experience in fomenting color revolutions in foreign countries, using NGOs to undermine foreign governments, and in supporting far-right movements within countries and using them to topple or put pressure on those hostile (to the US) governments. Russia did attempt to use diplomacy (for eight years) to stop Ukraine’s bombing of civilians in Donbas but that didn’t work out. Russia tried one last resort by diplomatically recognizing the Donbas Republics but that just caused Ukraine to start shelling the Donbas even harder.

            Don’t tell me…the verified evidence of countless war crimes are just propaganda right? For which you’re going to offer no counter evidence.

            All war is a crime and all wars come with war crimes. Some war crimes were committed by Russia, some were committed by Ukraine and then blamed on Russia, and some were pure atrocity propaganda that was just made up. The made up atrocity propaganda was so bad that the Ukrainian Rada (parliament) had to fire their commissioner for human rights. She was just spreading made-up atrocity propaganda and also wasn’t bothering to organize the evacuation of civilians.

            https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissioner-human-rights-removed-russian-sexual-assault-claims-1711680

            As for the accuracy of your accusation - do you have some sources? I’m interested to read and learn about your viewpoint. Assuming that it’s not just your armchair intelligence briefing.

            Here’s an overview. Click the links to get details about the parts you’re interested in.

            https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/2014-coup-ukraine

            The short version is that the National Endowment for Democracy (a CIA cut-out) has openly spent over $5 Billion dollars to “promote democracy” in Ukraine. Do you remember how much the US freaked out over Prigozhin (Wagner guy) spending a hundred thousand dollars in order to “promote democracy” in the US? John McCain and Victoria Nuland openly met with the protestors and announced their full support and the backing of the US. Nuland had a leaked phone call where she was hand-selecting the new leader of Ukraine. The new Ukrainian Finance Minister become a Ukrainian citizen the very same day she was sworn in as Finance Minister.

            As a bonus. Here’s one of the guys that McCain met with.

            Tyahnybok himself was expelled from the Our Ukraine parliamentary faction in 2004 after giving a speech demanding that Ukrainians fight against a “Muscovite-Jewish mafia” (he later clarified this by saying that he actually had Jewish friends and was only against to “a group of Jewish oligarchs who control Ukraine and against Jewish-Bolsheviks [in the past]”). In 2005 he wrote open letters demanding Ukraine do more to halt “criminal activities” of “organized Jewry,” and, even now, Svoboda openly calls for Ukrainian citizens to have their ethnicity printed onto their passports.

            Tyahnybok is a prominent leader in the Ukrainian protests, so perhaps it was only right that McCain met with him as he did with the others (we reached out to McCain’s office to find out how much he interacted with Tyahnybok, but have not heard back at the time of writing). You can defintely understand, however, why Jewish leaders in Ukraine and abroad are concerned about him.

            https://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12

            • MoreAmphibians [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
              13·
              11 months ago

              Whatabout region of France

              It’s actually from Northern Ireland! Everybody thinks the phrase came from the US during the cold war but it didn’t.

              According to lexicographer Ben Zimmer,[13] the term originated in Northern Ireland in the 1970s. Zimmer cites a 1974 letter by history teacher Sean O’Conaill which was published in The Irish Times where he complained about “the Whatabouts”, people who defended the IRA by pointing out supposed wrongdoings of their enemy:

              Their enemy in this case is the Black and Tans and the British Army and their supposed wrongdoings are the reprisal killings they committed against Irish civilians.

          • Rod_Blagojevic [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            7·
            11 months ago

            Did you ever notice these Russian invasions of “sovereign” countries always occurs right on their borders and in the places where NATO is planning to establish a presence? I wonder if this had anything to do with safeguarding Russian sovereignty? I guess we’ll never know. If only there was a historical record of what NATO did to Russia (and Ukraine) in the late 80s and the 90s.

            Or you could just show us your dick.

      • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        41·
        11 months ago

        Because Hitler also only wanted peace

        Nice try Ruzzian shill, but we true defenders of liberal democracy know that Nazis are the good guys now, and RUSSIA is like the Nazis, who weren’t so bad really because they were fighting Russia, who is like the damn Nazis, who actually weren’t so bad bec

        • MoreAmphibians [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          22·
          11 months ago

          2022 was probably too late to agree to follow the Minsk agreements. If Ukraine wanted to do that it should have done so during the preceding eight years. At that point Russia was correct to push for disarmament and and maybe a DMZ.

      • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
        23·
        11 months ago

        The west appears to have exactly the same policy they have had the entire time also - and that is: leave the sovereign territory of the other nation, and there will be peace.

        And when Russia points out its really conspicuous how this is a standard only ever applied to them?

        Russia says its their territory, Ukraine says its there’s. At this point there are literally only three options.

        1. Recognize Russia claim, cede the land, end the war and ukraine can go forward with the territory they have now. (Maybe they can even think about allowing opposition political parties and elections at some point.)

        2. Don’t recognize Russia claim, keep doing whatbwere doing and, as the west loves to say “fight to the last ukrainian”. Then there will be nobody left in Ukraine and Russia can take all of it (or Ukraine like, takes off weights and reveals it actually has more capacity to fight then they’ve been letting on for the whole counter offensive)

        3. Other countries back Ukraines claim and get directly involved in fighting Russia in a hot war, putin, Xi, and Biden grt to fight over the nuclear ashes.

        Which of those would you prefer, because the solution I keep seeing from liberals “Russia decides to stop for no apparent reason, gives up goes home and gives all the land back” is not actually a realistic or even feasible outcome.

        So I really want to know, which of the three real world options would you prefer, and again “I wave a magic wand and Russia gives up and goes home” is not one of them.

        • el_abuelo@lemmy.mlEnglish
          2·
          11 months ago

          More whataboutism. You can’t use one atrocity to justify another, otherwise you’re justifying them all. That would be atrocious.

          Why have you ruled out 1 option yet didn’t rule out Ukraine doing exactly what you’re saying Russia can’t do? Seems like you’ve been brainwashed.

          I dont know what the answer is; but I do know that a million dead Russians and Ukrainians is an awful thing. I also know that Russia started the military action and could at any time return to its own territory and stop the dying. If Russia suddenly has some legitimate territorial claim then it should settle it through diplomacy, not with the blood of millions.

          I also think it’s up to Ukraine to choose what it does, and everyone should support that decision. Currently only the west seems to support it…and because Russia hasn’t had its way its throwing its toys out the pram and trying to settle it with the blood of millions of innocents.

          • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            19·
            11 months ago

            Just because you made up a new word for hypocrisyndoesnt mean you’re not being a hypocrite.

            Love that liberals somehow convinced themselves that by saying “you pointing out my hypocrisy absolved me” works on anybody but them.

            I dont know what the answer is;

            Yea we know, that’s kind of the entire point of our argument is that you don’t have any solutions other than literally Russia gets bored and goes home for absolutely no reason. It’s also why we keep saying you aren’t serious people who are even dealing with the realities of the situation.

            but I do know that a million dead Russians and Ukrainians is an awful thing.

            No you clearly don’t because you get super pissed whenever somebody suggest you stop sending people to die for no reason.

            I also know that Russia started the military action and could at any time return to its own territory and stop the dying

            So literally right back to magically thinking again.

            I know that if a super hot movie star started dating me that would be the end of my “not having a famous celebrity girlfriend” problem.

            But the same question applies to both scenarios, why in a million years would that ever possibly happen.

            So, once again, after trying to have a discussion about the actual realites of the situation liberals go with ignoring reality, saying it’s bad when Russia does it but you can’t point out we do it all the time, and the solution is for Russia to just give up on a war they’re winning and cede territory they say is there’s for LITERALLY NO REASON OTHER THAN MAKING DUMBSHIT HYPOCRITICAL LIBERALS MORE SMUG. A goal every ukraine flag emoji account I’ve ever seen is willing to sacrifice every single ukranina life to accomplish.

            • el_abuelo@lemmy.mlEnglish
              1·
              11 months ago

              hypocrisyndoesnt

              Speaking of new words.

              Whataboutism isn’t absolution and I have nothing to be absolved of. I don’t defend war mongering on behalf of any country. Unlike the replies in this thread.

              Being against the Russian invasion of a sovereign nation does not make me a Liberal, I’m sorry that doesn’t align with your narrative.

              you get super pissed whenever somebody suggest you stop sending people to die for no reason

              What’s wrong with you? What makes you think I’ve sent anyone to die? For any reason? And got pissed about it?? Do you think I’m the Ukrainian president or something?

              Russia gets bored and goes home for absolutely no reason

              Yet another example of making shit up to fit your narrative. You could equally frame it as “Russia realises that invading another country is wrong and withdraws”. Both as equally as unlikely as any of your suggestions. In all liklihood there will be some other solution that allows the main parties to save face and hopefully stops the killing. I’m sure you want people to stop dying too.

              As for your last paragraph of barely cohesive babble - none of that is remotely accurate. I’m not a Liberal, I’m not as naive as some people to think I can suggest or predict a solution, I don’t think you “can’t” point out atrocities by the west - I’m just saying “but they did it first” is a shit reason to kill 1m people.

              And why on earth would I need to choose one of your solutions to this monstrous invasion? My viewpoint is that the imperialists should go back to their own country and stop butchering civilians. I don’t give a shit why they do it. I’d rather we got there yesterday and less people died…but if the only way to stop the aggressive and unjustified invasion is to drive them back militarily then I guess that’s what has to be done. Because your options are shit.

              • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
                17·
                11 months ago

                Lmao ohh no one slight and obvious typo totally invalidates what I said.

                I’m done reading these page long works of fiction. You need to chose one of my options because those are the only ones that there is a greater than 0% chance of happening.

                Or you can keep screaming “Russia should abandon a two year long military campaign now that they’re winning to appease whiny liberals”

                As usual we’ll be over here continuing to say “hey look it’s exactly what we said was going to happen” while you tell us we don’t know what we’re talking about.

              • ElChapoDeChapo [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                13·
                11 months ago

                but if the only way to stop the aggressive and unjustified invasion is to drive them back militarily then I guess that’s what has to be done.

                So what you’re saying is that you are a war mongering donkey brained lib but you’re slightly embarrassed about it? Really you should be more embarrassed, you’re pathetic

                Good luck with that loser, your little nazi pals have already lost

                This you bro?

  • Monk3brain3 [any, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    48·
    11 months ago

    I wouldn’t have predicted it but Russia somehow did not take the L in this war, not that the eort of Russian collapse the west hoped for was ever feasible. I will say Hamas getting Ukraine thrown off the US military aid number one priority position was a sweet bonus for Russia. And it also shows the logistical issues in maintaining an empire. You can’t cover the globe despite how insane you might be. Power to the Houthis

  • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
    32·
    11 months ago

    I hope this is just preparation for a victory lap, maybe even just mocking them now because a lot of (pro-Russia) analysts already came to a conclusion the current borders are far from sufficient. Likewise it is almost impossible to conceive Ukraine will cede unoccupied territory so again, I’m not sure what he is trying to do here other than to take a piss.

    The pre-war goals, the most important being NATO neutrality? You’d be a damn fool to believe this will be enforceable without Russian troops sitting within 15km of Kiev for the rest of eternity or something like that.

    • zifnab25 [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      46·
      11 months ago

      I hope this is just preparation for a victory lap

      Nothing about this shit-show deserves a victory lap. It was the bloodiest and most pointless mass immolation of life and livelihood since Iraq. At the absolute best, Russians get to claim a charnel house littered with depleted uranium. More likely, they’ll be doing anti-insurgency across the country for decades, while the rest of Europe grows increasingly fascist and racist towards Slavs.

      I’m not sure what he is trying to do here other than to take a piss

      All wars are just a prelude to diplomacy. I think Putin is putting out interest now so he looks better on the international stage, before Biden loses the White House and Republicans come to the settlement table ready to kick this under the rug so they can pivot back to China.

      The pre-war goals, the most important being NATO neutrality?

      NATO gets to come out of this with more money, more members, and a renewed mandate to battle its age-old nemesis. I think NATO general staff might be the ONLY folks coming out of this for the best. Maybe with the exception of the Chinese, who have finally broken through the old Sino-Soviet split and as senior partners to boot.

      You’d be a damn fool to believe this will be enforceable without Russian troops sitting within 15km of Kiev for the rest of eternity or something like that.

      I don’t know how many Ukrainians are left standing to do the next Pickett’s Charge into Russian artillery fire. And given how easily Russian artillery has demolished critical infrastructure in and around Kiev, I hardly think they need to be west of Brovary to pose a threat.

      The enforcement comes from Russian artillery placements. Donetsk will be at least as secure as Pyongyang.

      • GaveUp [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        35·
        11 months ago

        It was the bloodiest and most pointless mass immolation of life and livelihood since Iraq

        That’s crazy, how was this more pointless than Libya, Donbas, Afghanistan, Armenia, or Palestine? More bloody sure, but Russia’s reasons for entering are justifiable for national security

        Don’t tell me that Russia thought getting sanctioned by the rest of the entire world and entering a proxy war in a massive country was somehow expected to be a net economic gain like everything the West has done since Iraq

        • zifnab25 [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          10·
          11 months ago

          That’s crazy, how was this more pointless than Libya, Donbas, Afghanistan, Armenia, or Palestine?

          Strictly by volume. I don’t believe any of those reached the scale of the Russia Ukraine war in the comparatively brief time period.

      • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        12·
        11 months ago

        More likely, they’ll be doing anti-insurgency across the country for decades, while the rest of Europe grows increasingly fascist and racist towards Slavs.

        Not sure what your point here is, they were dealing with the Ukrainian nazis shelling donbass for almost a decade already, at least now there is a path towards some sort of normalcy while before there wasn’t? Like I’m not sure your point here this is very much a big victory for the Russian ethnic in eastern Ukraine.

        You also don’t seem to realize Russian popular sentiment is already very invested into the outcome of this war. It is why Putin can’t be too soft, its why he was criticized when the Azov prisoners were exchanged even by regular right wing/nationalists. War support in Russia is not just a leftist cause and Russia will take pride in their “victory”.

        Of course that doesn’t discount the human cost at all, but as I said the human cost was already there counted in the amount of missiles and shells hitting Donest city every day before the war.

        The rest of EU? Everything is contingent on US support, nobody else has an army nor an economy to wage war and while they may be racist towards Slavs this is nothing but a mere continuation of the cold war.

        But even more so Europe was always as much fighting among themselves as with outsiders, the EU neoliberal project is barely a generation old and the post-WW2 “normalcy” came at the cost of Germans bombing French and English/vice-versa to hell. Of course the capitalists on both sides were spared but my point is such “unity” is fickle at best historicaly it doesn’t take much for European countries to go to war against each other. Also remember how Spain/Greece/Italy got fucked in 2008 by German backed EU economic policies?

        The same thing will keep happening. The racism against non-whites is barely a stop gap measure, EU fascism will turn inwards first before worrying about geopolitical issues. Anyway its not like said Italian or French fascist got any military power to do anything without US help anyway. Best they can do is continue to persecute non-whites/the poor at home.

        • zifnab25 [he/him, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          8·
          11 months ago

          they were dealing with the Ukrainian nazis shelling donbass for almost a decade already

          The scale of conflict has escalated significantly since then. Casualties are in the hundreds of thousands.

          You also don’t seem to realize Russian popular sentiment is already very invested into the outcome of this war.

          American popular sentiment was very invested in the outcome of the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars two years into those conflicts. I don’t think that works in their favor. On the contrary, they’re exposed to a backlash if they do any kind of withdrawal or suffer another nasty run of casualties or tie the conflict back to a new economic downturn.

          Everything is contingent on US support, nobody else has an army nor an economy to wage war and while they may be racist towards Slavs this is nothing but a mere continuation of the cold war.

          For the time being. But a big role of the Bush Era State Department and beyond has been prodding EU/Middle Eastern states to arm up and get into these territorial fights. Turning European and Arab allies (and more recently Pacific states) into armed outgrowths of the US-based MIC. As fascist movements throughout Central Europe build up in popularity, and as states ramp up the size and scope of their domestic police forces, its easy to see conflict accelerate into border clashes and then open war.

          That’s exactly what happened in Ukraine between 2006 and 2021. First, police forces ramped up. Then the conflict flared up into a decade long civil war. Finally, as the western bloc gained territory in Donetsk and the fighting spilled over the border, the conflict went international.

          Why would this not happen in Poland or Hungary or Italy or Germany? Turkey is already in the thick of it and could easily be the next domino to fall. Syria almost tipped into civil war and international conflict thanks to US interventions. There’s nothing magical about these Western states that would prevent pogroms against Africans, Arabs, Slavs, and other Asian cohorts (particularly the Chinese) that would in turn flare up into wholesale street fighting and eventual interstate conflicts.

          The same thing will keep happening.

          I absolutely agree. But I don’t think the Russia-Urkaine war backstopped any of it. I only see it as the latest in a string of border classes and ethnic purges that Europeans will be conducting for the next century.

          EU fascism will turn inwards first before worrying about geopolitical issues

          Fascism never just stops inside the borders of a state. As soon as refugees start fleeing the state and businesses suffer and neighboring territories see attacks on their ex-pats as an attack on themselves, the conflict grows in scope.

          Russia-Ukraine is the model for the future.

    • GinAndJuche@hexbear.netMEnglish
      231·
      11 months ago

      Worth a read

      I haven’t finished thinking about it, but the idea of land redistribution to veterans as a way to stabilize the initial occupation of the western ukraine is interesting if nothing else.

  • Kaplya@hexbear.netEnglish
    5·
    11 months ago

    Russia is screwed either way.

    With China reconciling with the US after realizing that Russia’s tiny market simply could not absorb the loss of export to the US, it is clear that Russia will get the short end of the stick moving forward as China refuses to decouple from the US. Together with the demise of BRICS, with India pulling away and Argentina going its own way, Putin knows that Russia has to make concessions now or they will get even shittier deal if they wait longer.

    It is fair to say that Russia and China have failed to bring down the empire. The world simply isn’t ready for it yet.

    • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      62·
      11 months ago

      What? Where the fuck did you get the idea that China wants to decouple from the US? Or from anyone for that matter?

      China hasn’t been involved in any of this shit. Bring down the empire? China doesn’t have to bring down the empire, it’s in decline and it’s never going to stop that decline. China just simply has to exist and it will rise to the top without an unprecedented intervention that the west is simply incapable of performing. America is already on the path the British empire was and will not reverse that.

      I don’t know where you’ve gotten these ideas from but they’re just flat out wrong.

      • refolde [she/her, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        39·
        11 months ago

        I’ve only been lurking and reading, not really speaking up about it but that’s kinda the trend I notice with their posts. A lot of them just come off as “USA stronk and Biden 5000 IQ 5-D Chess strategic mastermind, USA set to eviscerate and humiliate China and set in thousand infinite year reich. China weak, ineffective and pathetic and hopeless, USA only makes it look like China has a chance out of pity.” That’s not actually what they’re saying of course, but I’m just exaggerating for the reason stated below:

        It’s actually seriously getting on my nerves. doomer

        • Kaplya@hexbear.netEnglish
          3·
          11 months ago

          That’s not what I’m saying and I’m sorry if it came across that way to you.

          I know a lot of people here can’t wait to see the US empire eating shit. Indeed, I have often said that China and Russia were on their way of checkmating the US empire back in 2022, but for whatever reasons they stopped doing what they were doing and so much wasted opportunities this year allowed the global hegemon to breathe and regain its strengths.

          Once you start to see the high level play of the US imperialists, it gets incredibly scary. Too many people see a senile president, a fumbling military operation and think the empire is crumbling into its own demise, but the empire’s spider web is cast far wider and deeper, and its bite far more venomous than most are seeing right now. Blink and you’ll miss it.

          • Vampire [any]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
            28·
            11 months ago

            China reconciling with the US after realizing that Russia’s tiny market simply could not absorb the loss of export to the US

            What are your trying to say here? It reads like you’re claiming that China tried to stop exporting to the USA (when?) and didn’t know that Russia was a smaller economy than the USA (why?) and then found it out.

            Your first comment is wrong from beginning to end and when questioned about it you retreat into vague language about “high level play” and spider webs.

    • geikei [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      33·
      11 months ago

      With China reconciling with the US

      Name a single relevant and concrete concession, policy change or backstep China has taken in the last couple of months in context of this “reconciling with the US” that noticably diverges from their behavior 6 months or 12 months ago. Xi visiting the US and saying “lets all coexist peacefully mmmkey?” or signing some deal for soybeans or whatever doesnt sell the story to me

    • Vampire [any]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
      32·
      11 months ago

      What loss of export to the US?

      (wrote that before reading the rest of the comment; it has too many mistakes to easily list; wrong from beginning to end really)

  • Delta_VEnglish
    4·
    11 months ago

    What is there to talk about? When Russia GTFO of Ukraine the war is over.

    • ButtBidet [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      481·
      11 months ago

      And what should be done with the majority Russian areas who legally can’t speak their language and who have artillery shells blasted into their cities by the Azov Batallion?

    • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
      421·
      11 months ago

      When are you going to grow up and join the real world? Repeating this shit over and over again doesn’t make it any less realistic, bordering on complete and total fantasy.

      What you are actually saying when you say this is that you are happy to see tens of thousands of people die for dumbass lines on a map, because you care about dumbass lines on a map and the states more than human beings. Your priorities lie in nationalism, not people’s lives. I’d go so far as to call it ultra-nationalism given the level of delusion you people are now stooping to in order to throw yet more bodies into the grinder.

      This all could have ended before Boris put a stop to negotiations. And it would have ended with exactly the same outcome that we’re going to get now, except with hundreds of thousands fewer deaths that you lot were happy to see.

      • Tunnelvision [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        18·
        11 months ago

        And it would have ended with exactly the same outcome that we’re going to get now

        Not really. Ukraine would have been able to retain the Donbas and they wouldn’t be living in a wrecked nation with a trillion dollars in destroyed infrastructure. Russia was basically only asking they stop attacking the Donbas, recognize their rights, and Russia would retain Crimea.

    • Adkml [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      291·
      11 months ago

      And if Russia doesn’t decide to abandon a 2 year war effort they appear to be winning by all recent assessments and go home for absolutely no discernable reason what’s plan B, ask Santa for it?

  • Monk3brain3 [any, he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    1·
    11 months ago

    I wouldn’t have predicted it but Russia somehow did not take the L in this war. I kinda do but it’s too long to explain, except that they were lucky Hamas got Ukraine thrown off the priority list.