- No server operator needs to federate with you.
- No server operator needs to tolerate things they don’t want on their instance.
- No user of an instance needs to personally curate their own extensive never ending blocklist of users and channels they don’t want to see.
Quit your pseudo-intellectual whining and choose what instance(s) work for you. If you think regularly interacting with shit content somehow helps you stay out of an echo chamber then go ahead and make a second account on those garbage instances full of hateful people. Then you can read both the decent servers and the trash ones and be the fedora wearing ackshually right fair and balanced uber nerd you always wanted to be.
Edit: The huge number of upvotes on this post compared to the low numbers on the whiney imposers’ posts is proof of exactly where this community places its priorities.
Whinging about whinging. The spirit of Reddit lives on.
We’re already at peak reddit replacement if we have whining in the comments about the contents of another post whining about users. I feel so at home here.
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“The Spirit of Reddit”
Nailed it.
That’s fucking hideous, thank you.
What the hell is up with the right thumb?
Yeah looks kinda eerie…or is that…eary
AI is going on.
Congratulations
What is that?
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IDK that feels more discord mod esque to me xD
Thank you, I absolutely hate it. I’m going to go vomit into my own eyes now.
😂
According to some of the posts in here, apparently, wanting to ban Nazis from your instance and refusing to rebroadcast their toxic shit is being “entitled”…
This makes the Nazis sound like a bunch of Karen’s lol
I would definitely expect the Venn diagram of neo-nazis and Karens who give trouble to retail workers to look a lot like a circle.
Sometimes it’s a circle, sometimes it’s a Mickey Mouse hat on Ron DeSantis’ head.
Nothing wrong with feeling entitled to tell nazis to fuck off.
asks people to quit whining
whines
Anyway, I don’t really care about defederation enough to switch instances. But even if I did, you can’t deny that it’s annoying. When Lemmy introduces some nice way of migrating to other instances with userdata intact, then your rant will make sense. Without that, I don’t think it’s wrong if people complain.
Most people complaining have two weeks of user data…
And during those 2 weeks I made 500 comments and almost 400 posts. Not picking sides, just saying that I’m tied to my instance now at this point.
You are single handedly keeping the entirety of lemmy alive
I’m not tied to my instance I AM MY INSTANCE
Lol sameish. I don’t have that much of an attachment to my past though. Jump around, see it all, share stuff, delete account and repeat. Your friends will know where to find you.
I’d like to point out that most people on both sides of the defederation debate are like that. And this instance has been up for months with only LemmyGrad blocked
New instance added to the block mix 👌 pumping up those numbers.
Two weeks.
I knew nothing about inter-Lemmy-instance-politics when I made my account. I simply made it on a server that was actually not SO overwhelmed that it couldn’t make new accounts. I would imagine the same is true of many new users of late.
My Lemmy exerience: We’re (heavily) advertised to on Reddit during the pre-blackout mess that we should try Lemmy. I go to try Lemmy. Server is broken. Server is broken. Server is not allowing new users. Server is not allowing new users. Ah! This one actually functions, so I can try Lemmy! Start following and posting, and finding nice communities. Then start finding out that some of these only federate in one direction, so I’m posting to people on another instance who can’t see it, because of Lemmy admin bickering and politics. Great, now I need to start over with a new account again, just when I was feeling settled in? Leaves a bad taste, and I was lucky enough to not end up on one of the MOST hated instances.
I hate politics. You can’t escape them anywhere involving humans.
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This isn’t a corporation advertising to get your business it’s a collective movement of people working to create a better internet, I totally understand you not liking politics but the reality of this world is that politics is important - the people runnning instances are generally doing it with their own time and money simply because they believe in the importance of the project, of course these are going to be people with strong principles.
Personally I think having a complex ecosystem is going to be a great thing when it’s had time to emerge and settle but yeah for now it’s all a bit new and up in the air but that’s part of the fun
But we need guidance for users to choose an instance before they create an account. Right now, people come in blind, into a minefield of politics. It is very frustrating to walk into that mess and then get reprimanded if you mention it. There is no warning for new users.
“Quit your Whining” then proceeds to whine.
“Quit your Whining” then proceeds to whine.
Ackshually it was “quit the pseudointellectual whining” 😁
OP is completely intellectual. This is the difference.
It’s a paradox. If people around you are whining, you are somehow banned from speaking up and saying “stop”, as that is also whining. Truly, no one can crack this nut
Completely agree, this whole entitled attitude about “we left reddit because censoreship hurr durr, now u do same thing, you have to do what we tell you” is really annoying…
Nobody is censoring you, you are free to join and visit whatever instances you want and watch their content… You can even host your own instance where you federate with whoever you want, you have free access to the code… But nobody is forced to host ANY content they don’t want on the server THEY themselves pay for…
we left reddit because censoreship hurr durr
The people leaving Reddit because of censorship did so long ago. These dissatisfied/censored people have a new home anyway… They can view child porn, people being brutally tortured/murdered, and make all the threats of violence they want on Twitter now. They just have to be careful not to insult the, “free speech absolutist” dictator or he’ll have them banned.
The mass migration today is because of dissatisfaction with Reddit’s decision to end 3rd party apps and specifically, the way in which they handled it. The dishonesty, the heavy-handed dictator-like seizure of protesting communities, the complete disregard for accessibility/moderation tools, etc.
To claim that people are leaving Reddit “because of censorship” isn’t just missing the point, it’s flat out wrong.
They went to the cesspit voat and that went under like a turd. I wonder where they all went after that, probably back to Reddit or Discord.
Lemmy is the first Reddit alternative most recent refugees have tried out, but it is clear that many existing Lemmy users do not want their platform to grow.
I wonder where they all went after that
Gab is still around and I think there are a lot of private discord communities as well.
There needs to be some clear guidance on this for newbies. As it is, you have to stumble across scraps of random discussions to learn about defederation and partial federation politics. You generally do this after you e already spent time on an account. Seriously, how is a person supposed to know what instance to choose up front?
The instance that works for me, sadly, is the instance that works on Jerboa and hasn’t defederated with any other instances.
Which one is that?
You’re right. That is sad. Move along now.
Such an utterly unhelpful comment.
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Try using Connect for Lemmy instead of Jebora. It honestly seems a lot better and more stable.
Did not like Connect. It was far more annoying to use and also didn’t support kbin. Far worse experience in general.
God I can’t wait for Sync to come to Lemmy 🙏
Hi from my new self hosted instance!
Something something landed gentry ;)
I assume if I stick to Lemmy this is what I’ll have to do. I just a basic experience where I can see everything and not have instances arbitrarily blocked on the whim of an admin
Might have finally found a use for my old Framework 13 motherboard, not like it would see huge traffic so it would be plenty powerful enough.
People want to have everything in one place and they bitch and whine when everything in one place ends up getting under control of people who are shitty.
Defederating is a needed part to maintain no party keeps too much control and ruins it for everyone. Remember why most of us left reddit for here? The ability for communities to defederate others will hopefully prevent the shit that happened.
Too far in either direction is bad. If everything completely separate was so great, then there would be no need for federation at all: but actually building a community and creating areas that feel alive is tough to do that way. People don’t want to individually manage connecting to random separate servers for each community, and if you didn’t connect to the right random server maybe you never even find the community you would have contributed to in positive ways.
Getting rid of hateful stuff is good, in my opinion even though some people will muddy the waters it’s really not that hard to determine what constitutes “hateful stuff”. But there’s also going overboard. “OMG, this server allows open user signups and some random dude signed up and created an unpleasant community. DEFEDERATE THE WHOLE SERVER IMMEDIATELY! IMMEDIATELY!!!”
Maybe a better solution is to have servers publish lists of new communities but not federate them to other servers right away. Maybe they need to reach a certain age and (possibly) be subject to some sort of approval process. That will give the administrator of the server a chance to recognize and deal with the problems before it starts to spread out across the federation. Of course, if someone just lets horrible stuff fester on their server and is unresponsive then by all means it should be defederated.
Right, but there is no central authority to decide the best rules, so we get to live through the process figuring itself out. Go ahead and promote what you consider a good solution, but anyone bitching that this or that platform is inhibiting their free speech by not conforming to the process they propose is just part of the noise, not someone to be taken seriously in the discussion.
Sure. To be honest, anyone who brings up “free speech” when talking about reddit, Lemmy, whatever doesn’t really understand free speech.
The only thing I personally was complaining about there was a knee-jerk collective punishment type of approach.
That’s fair, I think the first instinct being to defederate is alow effort way of dealing with the issue. I don’t necessarily have a better one with the sudden influx of people from platforms so utterly different that is basically a while new world and a while new sleep of malicious actors following the herd, but it still should be understood that it’s up to the individual instance to react, not the people leeching off the goodwill of the people maintaining it and complaining the whole way along.
Actually defederated as it works here means one party has way more power than in centralized Reddit.
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/511746
It ruins it for anyone who is not deeply in agreement with the admins.
It’s admins and groupthink over users. And zero stability or discoverability. Friction with little to gain unless you’re in authoritarian lockstep
You feelin’ alright, man? Maybe get something to eat.
big “I am very badass” vibes
I don’t get that vibe at all. Seems like they’re calling out people who want toxicity to be allowed.
Isn’t this a case of take your own advice?
Many instances have already defederated lots of stuff. If you feel strongly about that shouldn’t you migrate there over asking other instances to do the same thing? Seems like if he wanted to he would have here by now.
All just feel like fediverse problems and IMO the action should be take ~2 weeks off line and then evaluate there all the shit lands and decide. In thedude’s shoes, I would have already pulled the plug on this as way to much hassle to get into the middle of. Props to him for not.
Right. OP should find a safe space and stop “whining”
I wonder if people would be interested in a “lurker” instance that disables comments/posts/etc. entirely. A “read-only” instance for the people who really hate the idea of being defederated, lol.
That’s fucking brilliant, I’m going to try to make one
Yes please. I’d rather curate my own and not risk missing content because I didn’t realize that some instance admins have beef or are too trigger happy with defederating.
You are free to make your own instance to do so. You can run it on an old cell phone or your home computer.
I love my main “hub” instance. It chooses not to federate itself with a lot of the bigger instances, because those are basically the wild west where anything goes.
My dumb mental health is pretty fragile (I’m mad about that), so it’s really bad for my mind to see front page content blatantly putting out bait, open hostility, shitty takes, or arguing about loli porn or whatever.
I’m a person who likes my hobbies, animals, goofy memes, and good conversation. I’m glad I can choose to participate in one “safe” instance, and venture to another if I’m feeling the need to explore more content.
I literally have the power to do both! And I’m happy for that choice.
People shouldn’t be upset when the power is in their hands to do whatever they want.
“interacting with shit content” but I want to see the most controversial instance. I want to see some wild shit. I’m curious of what the bad boys have to say.
Just make an account there then?
No-no, you misunderstand, I want the circus to come to me.
This. I love the circus. I open all the shitty instances often just to keep myself entertained. 😊 We don’t even have to pay for it.
Reminder that defederation is an explicit feature implemented into fediverse platforms. It is meant to be used as the instance sees fit. The notion that you can never defederate with anyone defeats the purpose of the fediverse, we might as well make one huge centralized platform in that case.
No other instance owes you a federation to your instance. The fediverse’s whole philosophy is that instances get to configure both who they federate with and who federates with them.
Finally, there is a certain irony in the people screaming “freedom” and “free speech” telling admins of private instances what they can and can’t do with their own platform.
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I agree in principle but if it ends up with defederation-by-default, or something similarly restrictive, you’ll kill the whole point of the federation and we can just go back to Reddit. IMO it should be used very sparingly (mostly to combat full on spam kinda like with email) and largely let the users themselves decide.
OP rants about seeing garbage from garbage instances but if you actually subscribe to the communities you want, you’ll only see comments from those “garbage instances”, and there can still be decent people with interesting viewpoints on there.
That’s all true. I do also think that there needs to be a certain amount of built-in stability in order for federated communities to grow. People are less likely to stick around if there is a high risk that their favorite communities becomes fractured into isolated instances.
If that was the argument presented I doubt there would be any argument to begin with. Saying ‘hey, you might not want to break connections with site for no reason so your users aren’t surprised or worry that they…so on and so forth’ could be met with a ‘hey, thanks for the advice’ and everyone would have moved on. Accusing them of censorship and attacking someone else’s freedom of speech because you don’t think a personal decision they made was justified because other people utilizing their platform expected something else is a completely different animal.
I do also think that there needs to be a certain amount of built-in stability in order for federated communities to grow.
I would argue that the Fediverse is inherently more stable than other platforms. The big platforms are defined by inconsistency. If you don’t like it, you can take your ball and go home and that’s your only choice. The Fediverse lets you take your ball anywhere you want. You don’t even need to change apps
The onus is on the user to keep track of what the instance they’re on is doing. Beehaw behaved in a manner that I don’t agree with, so I chose not to sign up there. Lemmy.world has so far defederated from instances I would also choose to defederate from. If the admins ever start defederating willy-nilly without good cause, I’ll choose another instance.
