Religion
Very true my fellow enlightened gentlesir tips fedora
this but unironically
Oh my god, isn’t Christianity kinda a pyramid scheme?
I am an atheist and I believe the world would be much better without religions. Having said that, I don’t conisder it as a scam in itslef. Instead they must have been something evolved over the time due to our ignorance, fear and helplessness. The very same factors that still keep them going.
But hell yeah, people are exploited in the name of religion. I’m from India, one of the largest so called democracies, currently under the governance of a fascist hindutva party that thrives on polarizing people in the name of religion.
BTW I was actually looking for specific instances of scams carefully plotted by known people, companies or even countries instead of broad answers like religion.
Just imagine what could have been done in the last 300 years if every dollar that was donated to churches went to some other cause, or back into the pockets of the masses. There is an immense amount of wealth that is trapped in the collective real estate, bank accounts, etc owned by churches. I’m not even talking about megachurches or the mormon’s giant stack of cash, just mom’n’pop little parishes that are everywhere across the US.
If ALL that money was still kicking around in the economy and in the pockets of people to spend on real things, building real businesses, etc…we’d be way better off.
Always makes me sad when I visit my in-laws who live in a particularly bible thumpy area and you go and there are spots there where churches outnumber normal businesses. It seems like it’s just a huge drain on the local economy devoting that much money into propping up churches of various kinds…
There’s a church across the street from my home in a small rural town in Oklahoma. It sits completely empty except for about 90 minutes from 11:00 AM to 12:30 PM when about 6 cars pull up into the parking lot and maybe 15 people saunter in for Sunday service after ringing a loud bell announcing to the whole neighborhood. None of these attendees live in the neighborhood I might add.
There are literally dozens of other churches just like it throughout the town. It blows my mind that a religion that claims to be about spreading the love of their savior and saving as many people as possible from literal damnation would let a resource like that go unused. They could have volunteers there every day of the week helping to improve the community and help people in need but they couldn’t care less.
Churches do an immense amount of charity work and helping their communities.
So do secular charities.
https://www.philanthropyroundtable.org/almanac/who-gives-most-to-charity/
Once again, the biggest givers are found to be concentrated in “Bible Belt” states in the South or where Mormons make up a large portion of the population. On the other hand, scant-giving households are heavily concentrated in relatively wealthy and secular New England.
I’m not even religious myself, just find it annoying that reddit atheist cool guys think that religious people are all greedy and selfish, when this opposite is actually true.
Yeh I hate that reddit atheist attitude, it embarrasses the rest of us atheists/agnostics. Of course it got brought over here too.
Organized religion has done a lot of bad, but they have done some good too.
Considering giving to any church 501©(3) themselves are considered “charitable donations” when it comes to taxes, this rings a little hollow. If you consider a church as a charity itself, and those churches are soliciting donations every week in services, of course you’re going to see higher charitable giving from areas with a lot of churches/religious. That said, my gripe is not with religious based charities, it’s with churches. Salvation Army can continue to do what it does, religious affiliated childrens hospitals, etc. The amount of money that is spent on congregations is just a waste and it’s a shame.
~signed, an atheist (ex)reddit cool guy
A church in the city I work for is being used as an extreme weather shelter for homeless/at risk people. I received a couple dozen phone calls from the parish when it was first announced who were pissed about homeless people using their church for shelter. Any time I tried to explain the irony of their complaint it just made them angrier.
I’m not saying this to paint a picture of all religious people, but from my experience the one’s I have come across tend to not care about anyone in their community not in their circle.
BTW I was actually looking for specific instances of scams carefully plotted by known people, companies or even countries instead of broad answers like religion.
Lesson for next time, use the text part of your post to define what you are asking or are interested in hearing. Otherwise you get everyone giving glib answers that suck like the above.
BTW, I’m reading Smartest Guys In The Room, the book about Enron, you might be interested in looking up that company. They used very complex financial instruments to deceive shareholders and Wall Street and boost their stock price. Bunch of assholes, some of the shit they pulled was obscene.
Lesson for next time, use the text part of your post to define what you are asking or are interested in hearing.
Right, I should’ve seen it coming. But as long as the discussions are healthy, instead of mudslinging, I’m kind of okay with it.
Sometimes I mull over what state we’d be in as a society if instead of celebrating a man’s deeds we had been celebrating nature and the environment that hosts us since the beginning.
I can’t help but think there would be a lot less damage to the environment and less greed.
Obligatory George Carlin clip. https://youtu.be/iouZYYzQEjU
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/iouZYYzQEjU
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Having said that, I don’t conisder it as a scam in itslef
I think the more correct thing to say is that Organized Religion is a scam. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being religious (provided you don’t force those views on others), but organized religion always winds up rotten at the top - and it’s not surprising. Organized religion is one of the most powerful tools for controlling people, even if it wasn’t (though it might have been) intended to be that way at the beginning. A king/president/dictator can threaten the lives of their subjects, but only a holy man can threaten their immortal soul (from the perspective of the devotee anyways).
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being religious (provided you don’t force those views on others)
Hum. That’s like saying “there’s nothing wrong with being convinced that 2+2=5”. There’s something intrinsically mistaken about it, and I don’t think it’s defensible.
Now that’s a take I completely stand behind and agree with. I couldn’t have put it better myself. That said, some religions were not made with the intent of controlling others. I don’t think Buddhism, Hinduism and Sikhism were made with the intent to control people. We can argue about Judaism, Christianity and Islam, as they were made for control by their founders, and what they intended for these movements after their deaths we do not know (or at least I don’t, maybe someone out there does).
Again - I’m not arguing necessarily that any of them started out that way, in fact - I’m willing to bet that very few (looking at you, Mormons) actually were. Most religion (in my humble opinion) just stems from folks trying to make sense of an unfathomable universe using what tools are available to them at the time. But once you have the religion, and you have holy men/women who have the ability to excersize some form of power over their flock, you’ll inevitably find corrupt people flocking to those positions, as they do in every position of power. Then over time they’ll carve out more power for themselves and more authority, find ways of extracting influence and power from their positions until soon you’ve got “holy men” living in palaces with the authority of kings.
It’s just human nature for positions of power to eventually become corrupted to some degree, and positions of religious authority offer an unparalleled lever in which to move the masses, which only serves to make it more attractive to would-be tyrants
Just FYI, that is specifically why The Baha’is don’t have clergy. They do have an administrative body with local, national, and global levels of influence, but those are 9 member councils that are elected by the members of the faith, who must use the Baha’i rules of Consultation to reach unanimous decisions. Also if any of them ever appear to want the position, they are automatically ineligible to hold said position. It’s worked well for about 60 years so far.
Religion was needed, but at some point logic and critical thinking should have been enough.
The issue is the wealthiest benefit when the masses don’t have the tools to use that. They want people who won’t question rules and blindly follow them.
Humans are just animals, we’re not born with those abilities, we need to be taught.
So we see education outright cut or forced to focus on rote memorization rather than the process to understand and figure shit out on our own.
We should be past religion as a species, but it’s not automatic, we have to continually teach the next generation to think for themselves
Religion is used as a scam by many people. It is also used in other ways by other people.
I was gonna write about the fascist aspects of the country, but I wouldn’t say that it’s something completely unknown; many of my peers are okay with fascism just because there is no centerist alternative, as what we have already seen leftists are not going to be better given the same amount of power.
When it comes to religion, it should have been a personal thing rather than systematically integrating it with each aspect of our lives like how it was initially intended.
Sometime earlier in my life I took a decision of not going to my place of worship; this helped decouple my belief in something bigger that I don’t understand, and a cult made by man.
thrives on polarizing people in the name of religion
things have been like this for a long time, irrespective of the parties. but this has been going too far for the past two decades, especially after the current prime minister started his period.
True that.
I wanted to post this
That you can get rich if you work hard.
The American healthcare system.
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What is the alternative to capitalism?
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Depends on how you define capitalism.
According to the modern (very intentionally altered) definition of capitalism,
“a system allowing the exchange of goods and services for currency, where different skill sets can result in different compensation”
… everything, including the USSR [1][2] has been capitalism. And even most Marxists are pro-capitalists.
The definition above encompasses everything that ever was, and everything that ever will be. (And that’s only a slight exaggeration)
Which – just fyi – makes the word one of the most useless words in the history of language.
If, however – just hypothetically – you wanted to have a productive dialogue with a self-described anti-capitalist, you would need to carry out the entire conversation pretending the word “capitalism” referred to something a hell of a lot more specific. A single mechanism within market society. A single kind of contractual relationship between worker and company.
Which is an exercise in imagination and in the algebraic concept of substitution that most people have a rather stubborn aversion to.
The barter system before currency was invented wouldn’t fit that definition, and strictly speaking Marx wanted Communism to do away with currency so if that ever happened anywhere, that would also be outside of that definition.
That being said, yeah the modern definition of “capitalism” is over-broad and mostly useless as a concept.
Right. That is a good point. Although Marx didn’t see the elimination of currency as a realistic goal attainable within the first few decades (possibly even the first century) of communism, he did believe a post-scarcity humanity would eventually transcend the need for currency.
However when it comes to barter, the thing is: even in societies dominated by barter, some commodity tends to become the standard against which the values of other commodities are measured. Cigarettes in POW camps, cacao beans in Mesoamerica.
By an admittedly-loose definition of currency, a currency does always emerge and end up being directly exchanged for goods and services, even in barter systems.
Communism
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Having actually grown up in USSR and lived under communism, I can definitively say that it’s not. I love how a bunch of idiots who are suffering under capitalism got convinced that nothing better is possible and to reject obvious alternatives that would immediately improve their lives.
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Why would I lie about something like that, you delusional piece of human garbage.
Scam for sure. Hard to say it’s been unnoticed for a long time though
idk - only 63% of Americans support single-payer healthcare, nearly half of Americans still haven’t caught on at least
“only”
That’s a clear majority. If we had a referendum about it we’d get it (but the US doesn’t have federal referendums.)
Barrack Obama
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Omg, 106 new comments! Hot dog, here I go!
Homeopathy, acupuncture, ozone therapy… all “alternative medicines” basically.
Once I made a joke online about paying for homeopathy by dipping a dollar in a jar of water and giving them the jar, and like five people I know unfollowed me lol
Did you hear the one about the homeopathic who tried to commit suicide?
He took a 10X dilution of cyanide.
Lol yeh a surprising amount of people believe in it.
I once trained to work in pharmacies, we had companies present on their products and one of them was selling homeopathic products. One of the other students asked if it actually worked and the rep’s response was ‘if it didn’t do you think people would buy it?’ I didn’t say anything but I thought to myself yes, there absolutely are people who hand over money for dumb shit that doesn’t work lol.
Like the old joke, “What do you call alternative medicine that works?” “Medicine!”
If some herb, plant or extract has a proven effect it will be adopted by real medicine, and all that is left in alternative medicine is the scams that do not work.
Tim Minchin
I worked for a medical clinic years ago.
One doctor was pushing natural hormone therapy.
I asked one of the other doctors. He wouldn’t touch it.
He told me he sees thousands of patients each year. Some number will get cancer, and some number of them will sue him.
If he prescribes a medication, he can defend himself by pointing to the medical studies showing the safety of the medication.
If he prescribes anything natural, there are no studies showing safety, because nobody can patent natural substances. Therefore there isn’t much money to be made, so nobody spends the money to do good studies.
Even if it was a miracle drug, he wouldn’t prescribe it.
He is wrong tho, natural substances can and are regularly patented when a use is found for them or a production method that’s better is discovered.
Monsanto has entered the chat.
DNA shouldn’t be patentable. I guarantee you that the scenario that Micheal Crichton laid out in Next will end up happening at some point unless we reign this shit in.
That was my initial reaction at first as well. However as far as I can tell, natural products are not patentable, unless the product in question has been modified, manipulated etc, to produce something that is deemed to have been significantly changed.
So, in the US, for example, the Supreme Court ruled that human DNA, being a naturally occurring product, cannot be patented. However, it also ruled that complementary DNA, essentially DNA that has been extracted and then modified in a lab, can be patented.
Medicine is any substance that has a demonstrable healthcare effect (demonstrated through double blind tests and not some rando’s anecdote). That includes natural substances.
To put it another way, medicine and natural substances are not two mutually exclusive (i.e. disjoint) sets, as you and/or your doctor friend appear to be implying.
That’s not what I’m saying.
I agree a natural substance can be medicine.
His statement - not mine - is that it couldn’t be patented.
Therefore the profit is limited.
Therefore there are fewer studies than a comparable pharmaceutical.
Therefore when (not if) he is sued, he will be less able to defend himself.
Therefore he won’t prescribe it.
Thanks for clarifying. Although I don’t agree with your doctor friend from an ethical standpoint, the point about natural products not being patentable is an interesting one and hadn’t occurred to me before.
There’s a slight gotcha here:
I’m in Asia and a lot of traditional chinese medicine you can buy is just regular medicine with a marketing disguise hiding the fact. Why yes, this is a box of whatever the fuck extract, very interesting, old northern recipe to cure the shit, let me just check what’s written on this paper, and, yep, there it is, it’s just Loperamide but with an additive to make it taste like Ginseng. Got it.
You’re almost right. Modern medicine needs to synthesize natural compounds to profit fully from them. They can’t just use natural remedies and present them to patients because they can’t patent them.
I’m sure that’s a major part of it, but I also wouldn’t want to live in a world where we could only get aspirin from willow bark. We either wouldn’t have enough aspirin or we wouldn’t have any more willow trees. Medicines derived from the actual source aren’t possible on a global scale in most cases.
Capitalism is a blight on society and has lead to countless deaths. But in a utopia where money doesn’t exist and people create medicine for the world only to help people with no profit they still need to synthesize it.
major part of it, but I also wouldn’t want to live in a world where we could only get aspirin from willow bark. We either wouldn’t have enough aspirin or we wouldn’t have any more willow trees. Medicines derived from the actual source aren’t possible on a global scale in most cases.
Capitalism is a blight on society and has lead to countless deaths. But in a utopia where money doesn’t exist and people create medicine for the world only to help people wit
I agree with you but in that case, the need to synthesize it could be made entirely based on practicality rather than profit.
Not all countries have for profit medicine though. I’m sure it’s a factor, but it’s not a universal thing.
There are other reasons why “natural” remedies get more scrutiny in the medical community, and the other comments have touched on a few of them
I used to get acupuncture with a tend unit attached to the needles as a kid for my chronic pain. Holy fuck did I feel better afterwards. It was probably the tens unit. I have a small one at home and it is great for relaxing my tight muscles.
A few weeks ago I got the flu and went to see my doctor. She wasn’t in so I got sent to a substitute who examined my ear with a weird beeping device. I asked her what it was and she just said that she practices “Chinese medicine”.
She told me her device indicated that I have huge problems with my thyroid and she said I should get some sort of crystal necklace that’s good for that and that I should apply some essential oils daily. Of course, she happened to sell those at a good price.
I went to have a blood test and my thyroid was fine, my values were right in the middle of the acceptable range.
Hey umm so … homeopathy. There is a case to be made --hear me out here please-- that it might have been effective once, but now we’ve got millions of “practitioners” doing things that clearly do not work.
The reasoning is obvious.
The concentration of practitioners within the population is clearly too damn high (insert meme here). To show how effective it can truly be, all we need to do is to dilute the ratio … by a lot.
Don’t you agree that this is worth looking into?
(/s in case anyone is in doubt)
I have a pinched nerve. I went to many doctors, done many tests, went to months of PT and was still in pain. I went to my acupuncturist and she is able to release the muscles around the pinch enough that my right arm doesn’t feel constantly numb. I a man of science. I don’t believe in he Chi traveling my body etc but the physical result of the acuponcture cannot be denied.
Trust me bro.
I Trust you what we doin’?
And there are physical therapists who do acupuncture strictly for muscle release without all of the chi stuff.
Yes absolutely. They call it needling though
my statutory health insurance (germany) pays for acupuncture. so it seems to be proven that it works so well that they cover the costs for the treatment
I’d just caution that coverage doesn’t necessarily mean effectiveness.
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So nervous system…
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I feel the same about chiropractic - many people call bullshit, but I’ll be damned if they don’t help me. Like you, I don’t believe “your spine is where all your problems originate” like some chiropractics try to peddle, but the dude pushes on my back and it pops and it feels better.
The issue with chiropractors is that they treat the symptom and not the cause. If your back is misaligned, it’s because your muscles are pulling on it the wrong way, the chiro will pull it back in place but now your muscles are still pulling the wrong way and they may have pulled on the muscle to make it move and may have injured it, now your muscle says hell no you don’t and starts pulling even more. It’s instant relief with little lasting result. which is a great business model, instant result and returning customers because the problem isn’t treated. It’s like going to the mechanic because your motor is out of oil but not trying to fix the leak so you come back every week to refill the oil.
The problem is I’ve been to numerous doctors, working with a pain management specialist now, done physical therapy with a few different places for months, do physical therapy every morning, do yoga, exercise every day, and still no relief. So, like, sometimes it gets so bad I go to the chiropractor because at least they can give me some relief.
Have you tried visiting a register massage therapist? They can provide even better immediate relief without the pseudoscience. It pairs very well with physical therapy.
Not covered by my insurance, sadly. Chiropractic is, but not massage therapy. Plus, it’s very hard to find a pro massage therapist where I live. But thanks for the advice.
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rolfer
I had to look this up. Honestly, I think that the connective tissue is my problem as the ortho surgeon(s) have said there’s nothing wrong with my bone structure, but also said they have no idea what’s wrong. Same same with the pain management specialist, he is just out to treat my symptoms (something an earlier poster said was an issue with chiropractors).
I honestly think there’s a lot of types of medicine out there that work for people, even the “pseudoscience” or “new-age” ones. No one should put their lives in the hands of medicine that has no scientific basis (ie if you have terminal cancer), but when it comes to chronic pain and other non-urgent but life-impacting ailments, as long as you do your homework as to who you’re seeing and the potential risks of treatment, it’s your choice. I get that people had bad experiences (proposing chiropractic can cure kidney failure), but if you’ve tried the “scientific” avenues (even going to multiple doctors), and no one can give you relief, you have to look elsewhere.
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My former boss, who is one of the biggest pieces of shit I know, has a severe back injury and goes to a chiropractor for it. Dude’s gonna end up paralyzed or worse. He works with doctors daily.
The few things they do that are effective are better delivered by an evidence-based provider (e.g., physiotherapist, massage therapist) without the pseudoscience.
Where’s the proof that massage therapy is more evidence-based than chiropractic? Honest question, a cursory search seems to show that it’s not. Also, interesting that my chiropractic and physical therapy visits are covered by my insurance, but massage therapy is not. Wish I could afford it.
I should probably specify that it does vary by jurisdiction when it comes to massage therapy. We have registered massage therapists here. Some massage therapists might employ some pseudoscience, but there’s solid evidence on the near-term therapeutic benefits of massage. For chiropractic, it’s pretty much entirely based on pseudoscience.
If you need to fix a problem, a physical therapist is the way to go. If you want temporary relief, a massage therapist can be helpful. There’s no good reason to see a chiropractor - and it’s unfortunate that insurance providers (including my own) don’t allow those funds to be spent on actual treatments.
My brother was in total kidney failure and his chiro said the pain was likely “toxins” released from his session. Utter quack. They arent all hacks, but they can do real damage. They can paralyze you for life or even worse. I hope you will not have firsthand experience
I used to believe the “they aren’t all hacks thing” until I met more chiropractors. While I would like to believe that there’s a subset of them out there who treat it more like a science of doing adjustments and what not, I don’t think that’s actually the case. My mom works for a chiropractor and has gone to several of their conventions over the years, and from what it sounds like they are all nutjobs who believe aligning your spine will cure you of all disease.
I would really love to see the numbers of how many chiropractors are antivaxxers. I bet it’s in the high 90%.
I base that solely off the fact that some have MDs and a dislike of sweeping generalizations… no matter how true 😅
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MDs give you incorrect information too. I had a GP for 5 years who, when I talked about my cataplexy - a well-documented condition that is directly related to my (at that time, undiagnosed) narcolepsy - he told me to go on birth control, then he changed my antidepressant meds, and then when those things didn’t help me, he said “try exercising more and lose some weight”. If he would had looked up the symptoms I was describing (like I eventually did), he would have probably recommend I see a sleep doctor, but instead, I lived with narcolepsy under his care for 5 years, almost getting fired for falling asleep at my job.
I know it’s not the same, as your brother had a life-threatening condition, but all this to say that MDs aren’t all outstanding professionals either.
It’s true that malpractice is a thing, and lord knows I’ve met plenty of doctors ranging from asshole to idiot. You’re especially at risk if you’re a female or minority which is just another layer of bullshit with healthcare outcomes. That said, I’ll take the person with a decade of school and required practice over a chiro any day. Sucks that it’s still something of a crapshoot :/
Oh I know, and I don’t trust any that ask me what other non-skeletal ailments I have (I had one tell me my acid reflux could be cured by chiro). But I have a few skeletal problems I go to them for about 3 times a year, and it helps.
See an osteopath instead, in the UK at least, they are trained and regulated unlike chiropractors who regularly kill or permanently disable people with unsafe and inappropriate “manipulations”.
osteopath
Thanks, I’ll check it out (though I’m in the US). Also, I researched my chiropractor very thoroughly to ensure that he’s not likely to kill or disable me.
edit: turns out my insurance covers osteopathic manipulative medicine, and there’s 1 practitioner in my area (25 miles, probably more in the 50 mile range since I’m close to a big city). I will be making an appointment with her. Thanks kind stranger!
The guy who told you to see an osteopath is a little misinformed and had things a bit upside down. Osteopathy is basically just chiropractic and has the same pseudoscientific origins.
However, for historical reasons osteopaths are very different either side of the Atlantic.
In the UK, osteopaths are basically just chiropractors with pretensions. In the US, doctors of Osteopathy are basically just doctors who went to a school that teaches osteopathic nonsense alongside real medicine, and they are licensed and operate as real physicians.
Awesome I hope they are helpful to you ☺️
Acupuncture has actually been shown to help in some cases beyond a placebo effect.
There isn’t much evidence there. There’s dry needling, which is the evidence-based alternative with different techniques - but much of that is built on the same evidence behind massage therapy.
Scams, all of 'em. But the medbed that I can sell you is totally real. /s
I love how ruthless the wikipedia pages on these topics are, by the way. Do check them out if you get the chance.
I think chiropractors also fall under this
Replies are wild, i love it
printer ink, it costs them like 3 cents to make each cartridge and they sell it for so god damn much.
they also go out of their way to have chips in the cartridges and in the printers that make the printer not function if any ink is even running low, doesn’t matter if you want to print something in black and white you had better fucking buy more cyan ink
Religion
Ever since the 90’s, almost every protest or riot that has been on TV in the past few decades has been based on circumstances everyone has been misled or lied to about. I say this generally, I’m not speaking about any specific ideology or any particular group. All the protests follow the same pattern of epiphany, yet they keep happening.
The ones that took place during covid scammed us all because covid required those in charge to say “don’t worry, us being out in the open didn’t cause the virus to spread, we took precautions”. Today, covid commercials will say those same groups that those protests were made for were disproportionately affected by covid as if it’s because of human right, and nobody is connecting it to the fact the protests happened during a time when every restaurant had plexiglass barriers. Again, not speaking for any group in particular, this was a fault for the Canadian truckers, BLM, those Trump-voting Libertarians, etc.
What about protests against climate change, human rights, just to name a few. I disagree.
You say that like they wouldn’t especially be included.
Climate change is an issue, I don’t deny that. Nor do I deny it’s accelerated by humanity. But it’s incredibly inflated. Every decade has “a few decades into the future” as our day of doom, and nobody does anything about Asian countries polluting the Earth, they just ask Western nations to do things. In China, there are cities where you need a gas mask to go out onto the streets, maybe do something about that.
As for human rights, yeah that’s the biggest contributor to false or misleading protests, and again I am not speaking in favor of either political wing here. The Tawana Brawley protests, based on a lie. The George Floyd protests (and its satellite protests), based on a lot of glorification and a generalization of their targets. The Harambe protests, not misleading but definitely overblown. The Cecil the lion protests, completely pointless. The White House protests with Q-anon, completely without evidence even if it “seemed” they were right (and was done by a white supremacist group). The pro-Trump protests before that, based on over-heroism. I could go on.
A scam is any ploy made for gain that isn’t based on an honest foundation. Protests as of late would thus be scams on a grand scale.
Theranos ‘company’.
Rent
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in general.When some talking head talks about why
today or today, the real reason is “insiders traded it that way” with a mix of “this is how rich assholes feel.”
