Edit: Meme has been slightly altered to be more accurate. Credit to @ininewcrow for the updated and better image.
It should say “Whiteskins” instead
*Paleskins
Crackers?
Me up in the stands (holding a bundle of fake money): CRA-CKERS! … CRA-CKERS! … (doing a tomahawk chop with the money) … CRA-CKERS! … CRA-CKERS!
Blue eyed devils, honkies, mayonnaise monkies, paleface (probably the most fitting as it’s a slur of native American origin and fits the redskins theme), peckerwood, whitey, or white trash
mayonnaise monkeys
This one needs to take off.
Yeah, you’ll need to try harder than that. Most of us aren’t blue-eyed and a lot of us are too different from the white trash stereotype. Most importantly, none of these are offensive enough.
If I heard someone chanting “CRACKERS, CRACKERS, CRACKERS”, I’d probably join in and wonder what dip or cheese we’re having with that.
This is a great discussion here, so keep reading. My favorites in this thread are the native wearing the “paleface” t-shirt with “Cletus”, and the “Fighting Whiteys”. Well done!
I’m white myself and was just listing slurs I’ve personally heard. Peckerwood, whitey and white trash are all considered pretty offensive where I’m from. The words may look a bit silly when they’re typed out but you’re missing the contempt and hatred that comes along with it when someone looks you dead in the eyes and calls you a slur.
The point is that they reduce you to a single feature, and display a clear disregard for your personhood. Perhaps being entirely unaffected by slurs is a bit of white privilege I’ve never felt and they genuinely don’t bother most people but idk
White trash is classist as much as it’s racial. It would fall flat for someone who’s costly not.
And yeah, maybe it is white privilege but I’ve never been offended by such a thing
Eh, I don’t think crackers quite works, just because the origin and use of the word compared to “Red Skins” has a slightly different context. I think “Red Necks” would have been a solid play on words, but obviously doesn’t quite have the same racial connotations and history. Aside from whitey or cracker, I can’t think of many other similar pejorative racial descriptors that’d really work though.
Crackers has to be the nicest derogatory word. Crackers are delicious.
Well, it’s short for whip crackers so maybe not that nice.
Oh I thought it was about saltines. White crackers that are bland and of little use on their own; bland and only useful to support things with more flavour.
“Paleface” … and show a picture of a buck toothed yokel
If you’re using a bucktoothed yokel as your mascot, you’re missing out on a solid “Red Necks” joke
Wouldn’t work. Doesn’t feel the same. Half of the country or more personally identifies as red neck, and proudly. If someone called me that, my first impulse would be a joking fist pump because one half of my family is that, yes.
Those that don’t self-identify either jokingly or in seriousness wouldn’t see the shirt as applying to themselves, so no part of it would land at all. They’d just giggle and agree like most people in this thread are doing.
Notwithstanding that the actual term redneck came about from the red handkerchiefs worn by workers during the Battle of Blair Mountain, an ongoing strike between unionized coal miners and local company towns that ended in anywhere from an estimated 20 - 100 dead. So again, fuck yeah my ass is a redneck.
Paleface.
Paleface does not have and has never had a good connotation. That one is different and nothing about the implicit reminder is fun. It’s one of two whole terms in existence that would make me knee-jerk upset. I’m hoping against every experience I’ve had with a fairly disappointing race that nobody proudly refers to themselves in the open as Paleface.Go with that one.
It’s one of two whole terms in existence that would make me knee-jerk upset.
What’s the other term?
I was sitting there after posting that, thinking to myself that this was definitely something someone would immediately ask me in person, so to see it pop up instantly in my notifications like that was both very funny and a depressing statement on human nature. “You mentioned there are two surefire ways to make you really sad for the rest of the day, but you only gave us one?”
I considered not answering, because that would be amazingly stupid ammo to just give away for free, but the thing about me is I wouldn’t be alive right now if I weren’t also amazingly stupid.
Anyway, one half of my family are wannabe rednecks. The other side is turkish and the only people in America who can find that on a map are the only ones who know exactly what they’re talking about. For reasons that are pretty understandable, there is enmity between turks and greeks, armenians, etc., so on the few occasions I’ve intentionally or accidentally outed the connection about myself in such company, I’ve more than once been called roach to my face with zero other provocation.
In their defense, ✩°｡⋆we do a little genocide as a treat⋆｡°✩, and seeing people double and triple down instead of simply just admitting that was maybe a mistake seems despairingly common. (If this is you, anonymous reader, you’re not having the effect on your national image that you think you are, and I wish I could go one day without being humiliated by proxy).
In my defense, the first person to ever say this to me was in their late 60s, I was a teenager, and I have never even been out of the country before. My numbers may be off because I got that public school education, but I do not think I was alive back then to have had any hand in this. In that sense, another (otherwise dismissive) commenter was very on the nose when they compared the dynamic at play to Original Sin: I never did this. I do not and would never agree to this. I can do very close to nothing or actually nothing at all to ever begin to fix it. But I still have to spend my life repenting for it.
TLDR: roach. The word is roach.
I think. NGL I just skimmed that.
I prefer the Cleveland Colonizers
they probably changed the wording to avoid being too on-the-nose…
I think they just swapped insults.
The Washington Wypipo (I would wear this version)
alternate
The Colorado Crackers
The Indianapolis Institutional Racism (WNBA team)
The Columbus Yakubians
The Louisville Legrees
Why drag Indy into this? Fever is the most sanitized team name ever.
The Columbus Yakubians
Only real heads will get this.
This meme always bugged me because it’s not an equivalent portrayal of what the actual real life team mascot displays (or had displayed for several decades … but continues to display in many other leagues and communities and schools)
As an Indigenous person … this is what Native mascot logos look like to me.
I want that tshirt so much!
I’m as white as the driven snow and English by the way.
"Some folk’ll never lose a toe, but then again some folk’ll. Like Cleetus, the pale faced yokel.
white as the driven snow
Did you know why natives hate snow?
It’s white, and settles on their land.
That’s good … but where I’m from in northern Ontario, we live in swamp country and we actually love winter because the land freezes over and we can freely travel over it … in the summer we become land locked or stick to canoes and rivers … but when winter arrives, we can go anywhere we want.
It needs to be plural to make the joke fit right and “palefaces” doesn’t quite fit the syllable count. We need something better.
“Paleskins”?
This guy seems a little more considerate than those he is mocking lol
They could also go with the original image with an assault rifle super imposed over it.
I want that tshirt so much!
I’m as white as the driven snow and English by the way.
"Some folk’ll never lose a toe, but then again some folk’ll. Like Cleetus, the pale faced yokel.
So… You’re slush gray?
Scotsman here. If you find this shirt please let me know. I want to get one for each member of my family.
deleted by creator
Fix’d.
It took me an EMBARRASSING amount of time to realize that was two thumbs up and not like… holding his clothes with his fingers tucked in. I was so fucking confused. I want to slap myself.
It took me an embarrassing amount of time of self reflection to edit that … the whole time I was thinking … will people think this is racist, am I racist, am I reverse-racist, is that a thing? Should I laugh at my culture? Is that allowed? Should I allow myself?
So I just burned some sweetgrass, waved my hands at the sun and hit reply
I think I love you
Meanwhile, as a white guy I have no compunction against mocking white people every chance I get. Privilege, indeed.
mishtikooshoo … this is word we use for white people in my language … the root word is mishtik … which means ‘stick’ or ‘wood’
Adding the ooshoo at the end associates the root word to a group or to a people or a person
So the word literally translates as … ‘man with a stick’ … the silly stick they were holding in their hands and that was so important to them was the Christian cross
When you look at the Christian faith without any knowledge about who they are and what they do or why … all you see is a ‘man with a stick’
And It only gets worse when you know who they are and what they do. One wonders what they thought when they saw that they pray to not just the stick, but to a bloody man nailed to it.
So… a stickman.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
I don’t know, that’s awfully PC. Shouldn’t it say “Whiteys” or similar?
Its pointing out that “redskins” is offensive, but not being offensive to do it.
You could say being formal is itself another joke on top of the contrast, as “indigenous” or “first peoples” would be an equally stupid football team name as “Caucasians.”
Good interpretation
He wants to parody the thing, not get murdered by a random hillbilly…
Yeah you’re a lot more likely to get murdered walking around with the N word on your shirt than anything you’d think would offend a hillbilly.
Did you see the Top Gear episode where the lads went to the Deep South and got chased by red necks cos their car had Hilary Clinton and gay sex painted on the sides?
… Yes, where they went out of their way to find the most reactive prone town they could, gave their very best shot to stir up animosity, and still left without incident aside from some verbal threats. Even then that was politically charged and had nothing to do with their race.
I haven’t seen the to gear episode of a southern tour, but if your priorities are based on a TV show. From the UK nonetheless. You can’t really say shit about the South.
I’ve been there, they’re not all raving lunatics. There’s only like a 50% voting rate in the country. Of that, roughly half are one side or the other.
So this guy is limiting half the country in nothing and the half he likes.
Paleface is an equivalent “slur” as an insult of Native origin.
Honkies or crackers would be fantastic.
It should say something mocking the redskins thing. Caucasians rhymes at least.
Cock Asians
Caucasians football is sponsored by mayonnaise and friendly interactions with law enforcement.
lol … I’m Ojibway-Cree from northern Ontario in Canada … born and bred Indigenous and speak my own language
My family friends and I had a hell of laugh a few years ago when Heinz announced it’s new mayonnaise sauce - Mayochup … some weird combination of mayonnaise and ketchup
In English it sounds like nothing … but in Cree, Ojibway and Ojibway-Cree … it translates as ‘shit face’ …
- May-yeh – translates as ‘shit’ or ‘feces’
- the ending ‘chup’ … is a descriptive ending you tack onto the end of a word to denote that it refers to a individuals face
Mayo-chup … literally means ‘shit face’ in my language
That’s awesome. Also mayo + ketchup is called golf sauce, not sure why they would call it mayochup.
Isn’t that what you do at a good course anyways?
Get shit faced
That. Is fucking amazing. 🤣🤘🏼
I’m a whiteskin and I’d wear it.
It would hit a little different if you wore it
I’m pretty sure if a white person wears it, it might be taken as a more white power thing than a mocking thing. I think it would be hilarious to wear, but I don’t want to send the wrong message.
This one is more clear about being a spoof:
EDIT: Some alternative takes:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
“I told you not to turn around.”
You made me rewatch that scene … as Indigenous people, my friends and I had used to howl in laughter whenever Indians appeared in the Simpsons … I know those voices are stereotypical and non-PC any more … but whenever I get together with close friends, I always put on that voice and talk about ‘the land’, ‘the birds’ and ‘the ways of our ancestors’ with terrible English just for laughs … thanks for reminding of all this
What about a logo with an Indian using a Caucasian t-shirt?
Yeah this is hilarious, I’d want a shirt like that
Yep no offense taken
That’s the point. It highlights how the lack of hundreds of years of oppression and murder matter to how things are interpreted.
Assuming just because I’m white my ancestors haven’t experienced the same. Dude, read a book.
Yes, you can see the ongoing oppression by all the white people stuck in reservations.
Living in pods.
deleted by creator
I insist on being referred to as whitey mcwhitey face
Now that you mention it, that’s kinda good.
Self deprecating and all
Not my first choice of a shirt, but I wouldn’t mind wearing it.
I think the team ought to keep the redskins name, but switch their mascot and logos to a bag of potatoes.
Also, love the shirt, although I think “white devils” or “invaders” would be a better insulting team name.
Every third or fourth catholic school has a team named “crusaders” and I find that baffling.
“Colonizers”
Removed by mod
Why did this image get edited to a Simpsons character paleface instead of the original Caucasian?
can someone pls link to the original?
“kind of”
I don’t feel insulted at all. Sorry.
That is what we call Privilege.
With a capital P? It’s a proper noun?
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
yeah it’s a privilege to be outraged about stupid shit
This is a perfect Rorshach/Newspeak statement: you’ll either agree or be outraged depending on what you guess about the speaker’s ideology.
I’m gonna assume OP agrees with me about _which things_are stupid and go on to enjoy my morning.
Privilege would be being insulted at this (as a white person).
I can’t believe you guys are really missing the point this hard. You’re not supposed to be insulted. The fact that you’re not insulted IS your white privilege. That’s what it’s highlighting. You’re tripping over the point here.
I strongly disagree, I grew up in a 100% white community in a 99% white country. In that situation there is no white privilege, because everybody is white.
And I see zero problem with that shirt. I don’t see why anybody would wear it, usually that kind of shirt would be worn, because you agree with or even is a fan of what is depicted.I wouldn’t mind wearing a BLM shirt for instance, because no matter what you skin color is, it is a true statement.
White privilege is the privilege of never having to think about your race or be impacted by it. You literally just defined it.
The shirt points that out. You have no problem with it.
That’s neither exclusive nor specifically for being white, lots of people of other skin colors don’t have to worry about that, and aren’t impacted by it. I have never heard anyone talk about yellow or white privilege for Japanese.
I’m not denying white privilege exists, but the fact that I don’t mind a T-shirt saying Caucasian, is not a symptom of that IMO.
If I was a fan of Indian culture, and had a shirt with the name of a tribe, please explain why that would be offensive to an Indian?
Maybe then I can understand the point some people here are trying to make.Edit:
I guess this could be related to some sports using Indian imagery, that is completely out of context, and could be perceived as cultural appropriation I guess. They are playing under a “false” banner. But we don’t have that or anything similar in Europe AFAIK.It’s exclusively white in America. I’m sure there are other countries with other systems. I don’t live in those so I don’t know their history and systems.
Not everything is about USA, “We” meaning white Americans is a pretty big dose of being self centered.
If you’re not talking about America, in a thread about a topic about Native Americans and their symbolism, then I admit I have no idea what you’re going on about.
deleted by creator
I strongly disagree, I grew up in a 100% white community in a 99% white country. In that situation there is no white privilege, because everybody is white.
Would you hold to the position that the white folks of your country didn’t benefit from colonialism & exploitation of people elsewhere in the world, resulting in a significant positive effect on generational wealth? Were your social institutions, such as universities and churches, built without any input from colonial exploitation, or doing business with those who did exploit other races for profit?
Privilege isn’t just about your local police treating you better than a brown person. It’s also about your skin color opening doors to education, power, and wealth.
Would you hold to the position that the white folks of your country didn’t benefit from colonialism & exploitation of people elsewhere in the world
Pretty much yes, our only possession of what could be called foreign land is Greenland, and that’s a huge economic deficit.
But even if we still have some privileges from colonial powers, that does not change the fact of not being particularly privileged in the society I live in when growing up.
Meaning it hasn’t formed my character on how I regard other people.You could say I was privileged in not being under privileged or discriminated against. that in itself is of course of huge value. But not really a privilege compared to everyone I grew up with.
Dude, you guys really benefitted from plundering the brits.
Ah yes, the good old days. 😋
Many of them even asked us to come back a couple of years ago. They have had some problems ruling themselves.
In jest I’m sure, or was it?
Privilege is generally fairly invisible to the people who have it. Like privilege of unrestricted travel. European nations with a high number of white people enjoy the privilege of their passports and visas allowing them to essentially walk into a high number of other countries. Let’s say… Denmark who has a whopping 159 countries that allow them free transit through boarders. If your country is predominantly not white and has broken ties with European colonization or has a non-European government structure then you might have free transit through approximately one quarter of the number of free countries and a number of additional stipulations are in place where you might theoretically have “free transit” but have to write ahead about your reasons for transit and can be denied access for things like visiting the deathbeds of dying family members.
Privilege isn’t just something that affects you from the standpoint of how well treated you are in comparison to the people immediately around you, it’s formative to your mindset because there are layers of restrictions of freedoms, choices and behaviours you don’t even have to know about because they do not apply to you. If you did not grow up with an expectation of having to make do with visibly less then privilege absolutely has shaped you and your worldview.
Not feeling privileged is part of privilege itself. Ask yourself if you feel like your experience has made you feel like a true citizen of your country? Can you wear clothes that allow you to feel modest by the standard of your religion without hastle? Were you as a child ever subjected to additional classes to reform your home culture? Privilege is as simple as feeling like you are home and nobody questions you being there.
Privilege is generally fairly invisible to the people who have it.
I agree and understand that.
Denmark who has a whopping 159 countries that allow them free transit
I’m sure for instance Singapore and Japan enjoy mostly similar benefits.
It has nothing to do with being white. Ergo it is not a white privilege. The same goes for for instance Americans, the number of countries they can visit is not tied to their skin color. Despite that, there is no doubt all white Americans enjoy some degree of white privilege, that does not mean the same goes for all other countries.Wow, that’s one hell of a cherry pick that left 90% of what I said on the table. One might also note that I mentioned “colonized by a European nation” and picking the two Asian nations that still host UK and US military bases and are maintaining democratic systems directly implemented by those occupying powers which continue as primary economic bedfellows isn’t exactly disproving my point.
If you’re going to be lazy then why bother replying?
deleted by creator
Right? Like, you should be honored that their mascot would be a guy who looks exactly like you. He does, he looks exactly like you. It’s celebrating how your people were brave warriors who fought with honor despite being uncultured savages, and you should be proud to have your entire culture condensed into one easily imitated mascot. Also, you should be thrilled how they chant “Defense” to the tune of Amazing Grace and Ave Maria, you should love that because those are your songs. How could you possibly be insulted by such an honor?
Context is important here.
I wouldn’t be offended at a team called Caucasians, filled entirely with Indian players. But I don’t live in the same universe that Indian people do.
But maybe if white people made up 2% of the population, after being systematically eliminated by Indians to make use of our land, maybe if white people were relegated to the poorest, least productive areas of the country and told to be thankful for it, and maybe if the word Caucasian was kind of a rude way to refer to my skin color, I could see myself being offended at the idea.
This one’s on me, because I was trying to make a point and be sarcastic at the same time.
While I agree with you, I’ll quibble that context isn’t actually important here. The point of the shirt, and the point I was trying to make, was that reducing an entire culture to a caricature is offensive in any context (regardless of whether or not you would it offensive). The people who defend using native imagery for sports mascots often claim that the portrayal is intended as an honor, and that they are celebrating the culture instead of demeaning it.
All of your points are correct, and each one compounds the offense. But even if you turn it around and use white people as the mascot, a people and culture who have not been systematically oppressed, deprived of life, liberty, and property, it’s still an inherently prejudicial and ignorant thing to do. So any argument about how mascots are intended to promote or celebrate or honor a culture or a people still fails to justify the practice.
It’s hilarious that you’re trying to defend Native Americans but call them “Indians”.
It’s one of the multiple accepted terms for them,I have personally known a family who preferred the term offer others
Isn’t that basically “I can’t be racist, I have black friends”? What if I told you that I’d been told by Native Americans that they DON’T like being called “Indian”? And if they are Indian, what do you call people from India, exactly? You know, Indians?
And others feel the same about the term “Native Americans.” It’s a big group of people from hundreds of independent nations that never had need for a collective term for themselves before Europeans arrived and started assigning labels.
There is no right answer on what to call them, the best you can do is use the term preferred by the people you’re interacting with at the moment, which will usually be their actual nation. For those situations where you are referring to them collectively, I’ve variously been told to use “Native Nations,” “American Indian,” “Native American,” and “Indigenous Peoples.” Each term will be liked by some and hated by others. Just be willing to change for the situation and people you’re talking to and you’ll be fine.
Oh, I do for sure. I’ll call people by any name or group or whatever if they ask. But I would never assume that a Native American is perfectly fine being called the equivalent of “a native or inhabitant of India, or a person of Indian descent.” That’s insane to me, and it’s insane to assume that they’d be fine with it. This whole thing is because of the irony of a person who was so clearly trying to defend Native Americans using a label that describes a completely different ethnic group. “No, not THOSE Indians, the other Indians, so named because a monster of a person landed here and thought he was somewhere else”. It’s just hilarious to me.
It doesn’t matter what you think, dude. It’s a generally accepted term among the people it’s referring to. It’s usually better to use the name of their tribe, but that’s not always possible
That’s cool. I prefer to call people from India Indians if that’s alright. If I’d like to refer to a Native American as something else I’ll at least do them the courtesy of saying American Indians so they aren’t referred to as a completely separate ethnic group.
Some of the most racist and bigoted people, are also very politically correct.
Some of the least racist and bigoted people, are also very politically incorrect.
PC language is often used by people who are awkward around minorities or want to disguise their true intentions.
Political correctness has its place, but it’s better to judge people by what they do or say, not how they say it.
You need more upvotes
Grew up near a res friendo, it was generally the preferred term. But tell me more about that horse you’re on
Oh hey pot! I’m kettle, nice to meet you!
The fuck you on about “horse I’m on” lmao, you just did the same exact thing
I’m indigenous and I personally have no problem with being called Indian but I know a few of my relatives hate the term. I guess it really depends on the person
I’m using the term I’ve been told to use to describe a group of people, by that group of people. Or at least a group of that people. If someone of that group comes up with a different term they’d like me to use I’ll happily use that, until then, I’ll use the last term I know to have been acceptable.
If you’re a member of that group and prefer a different term, then make that known.
If you’re not a member of that group, then you’re making assumptions for a group of people and calling it respect while completely disregarding the wishes of the people to whom you’re attempting to refer.
I’m not disregarding wishes. I’ll call any INDIVIDUAL whatever they want to be called. Groups will be referred to by the most accurate and accepted name. Indians are from India and it’s ridiculous to call Native Americans/American Indians that. It’s as ridiculous as calling any black person “African American”, like when the interviewer insisted on that terminology for Idris Elba, a black British man. That’s it. I’m not calling them “Redskins”, for example. I’m using a perfectly respectful and accepted term and not one that may or may not be accepted, depending on who you ask, and not one that is literally incorrect.
Edit: There’s a person directly below this comment whose relatives hate the term “Indian”.
In the usa many do use the term Indian over native American. Not all it varries from place to place.
deleted by creator
So you speak for ALL American Indians, then? Do I speak for ALL Germans? Or have I been in the US long enough that I’m no longer German? My grandmother was born in Germany, is that too far? Or is it just skin color, I speak for all whites, no matter the country or culture of origin? I’m curious to the rules here- I shouldn’t speak for American Indians because I’m not one, right? So who can speak for all American Indians and all 547 distinct tribes (federally recognized)? Do you speak for every tribe? If not you, then who? Your phrasing was “Unless you’re American indian”, so… yes? You speak for all 547 tribes and 5.2 million people?
deleted by creator
Buuuuuut… you did say “Unless you’re American indian”, so that does imply that you or someone else CAN speak for all of a group. So I’m a bit confused here. I will call you whatever you’d like me to call you, including “Indian” on its own if that’s what you’d prefer to be called (even though that doesn’t make sense to me), but you didn’t actually answer my questions. Let me try again- how is it bigoted to not assume that a group of people would want to be called something that is fundamentally incorrect by definition, has a turbulent history, and is not what most federal programs call them- you yourself say that the benefits go to “American Indians”, not “Indians”.
Thanks for the coloring page, is it one of your favorites?
Baby steps…
Or maybe they are not familiar with sportsball teams and are confusing the logo with that of the Cleveland Indians.
I had to look it up.They actually recently changed that name. They’re the Cleveland Guardians as of 2021.
The funniest part is that people from the caucasus are actually darker-skinned.
The indigenous palefaces got pushed out by Turkic conquerers, pray for their descendants 🙏
Shouldn’t that be white skins?
Either way, fine with me. I think we shouldn’t make small things big issues, we got much MUCH bigger fish to fry
Foreskins
Who is ‘we’?
The white people of Lemmy.
When did caucasian become synonym of white? The caucasus is a small area between russia and the middle east, I’m not caucasian
Because the vast swathe of Indo-Europeans seem to have all originated from somewhere in this region … If you’re white, then a good chunk of your ancestors had something to do with the culture that expanded our of that region in the late Neolithic/early Bronze Age. Do you prefer the term Indo-European?
Ok I think this falls in the “technically correct” basket, even though if you have to go so far back in time to find a common ancestor that the category ends up including two whole continents, i’m wondering what’s the actual value of that information.
