- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- politics@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- usa@lemmy.ml
- politics@lemmy.ml
āThe resolution suggests that all anti-Zionismāit statesāis antisemitism. Thatās either intellectually disingenuous or just factually wrong,ā said New York Representative Jerry Nadler, who voted present. āThe authors if they were at all familiar with Jewish history & culture should know about Jewish anti-Zionism that was and is expressly not antisemitic. This resolution ignores the fact that even today, certain Orthodox Hasidic Jewish communities ā¦ have held views that are at odds with the modern Zionist conception.ā
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Anti-Zionism is not antisemitic.
Lumping in all Jewish people with the genocidal apartheid ethnostate absolutely is.
Holy shit thatās poignant
āThe resolution suggests that all anti-Zionism ā it states ā is antisemitism. Thatās either intellectually disingenuous or just factually wrong,ā said New York Representative Jerry Nadler, who voted present.
ā¦and who also happens to be Jewish.
And thatās the what; hereās the why:
AIPAC Throws Millions at Possible Insurgent Campaigns to Unseat Progressive Democrats
In a mounting offensive by AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, to unseat progressives who speak up for Palestinian rights, Westchester County Executive George Latimer, who has been courted by AIPAC, announced earlier today he is launching a primary challenge against New York Congressmember Jamaal Bowman.
to Unseat Progressive Democrats
No wonder so much of the party voted for this.
Progressives need to get meaner. This is the point where they need to stage a coup within the Party and push out these neolib, pro-capitalist, anti-progress, establishment hacks.
Just looking out for different rich people.
And in many cases, the same.
Hey Congress, the Israeli Government sucks and not all Palestinians are bad people.
Congress š¤Æ
I wish.
This is ridiculous, the first anti zionists were all Jewish. Some were even assassinated for their views. Zionism should not be conflated with Jewishness at all.
Unfortunately, thatās too nuanced a presentation of facts for most people to digest. No one actually knows anything about history anymore.
I am so tired of this bullshit and of Isrealās bullshit. I donāt care if people think I am antisemitic because technically I am. I am in the same way Iām anti Christian, Muslim, Buddhism, Odinism and every other religion. Can we please stop using superstition as a reason to kill and hate eachother when there are plenty of good reasons to already do that or better yet just stop doing it all together.
Then youāre anti-judaism, not antisemitic
Hey thanks for teaching me something new! I appreciate it.
given that almost all jews support zionism, I donāt really get why people stress making this huge distinction.
almost all jews support zionism
Evidence, please.
Well you see, if they donāt support Zionism theyāre not real Jews!
ā That guy, probably
Iām guessing the opposite. Iām guessing itās āJews are evil and they all support genocide.ā
And considering, as Nadler pointed out, that there are Orthodox communities in the U.S. which are and always have been staunchly anti-Zionist, thatās not even true from Israelās inception.
Not only that, but a huge contingent of Zionists are not Jewish, and are pretty damn anti-semetic. Thereās a strain of it that wanted to kick Jews out of all other countries.
Religion isnt the reason, itās just the excuse.
The reason is money and power. It always has been.
I think the best term is āanti theocracyā and while Israel is in theory a democracy they are first and foremost a theocracy because the democracy is a right only reserved for those inside the theocratic construct.
No they are a secular democracy. Their laws are not based on Judaism. Judaism prohibits most things they do.
Israelis hate black black Jews as well. Itās just a racist white ethno-state.
If they are an apartheid state with tiers of citizens, they arenāt a democracy.
What are their tiers of citizens?
The Anti Jeremy Corbyn playbook is still in use I see.
That was used as a stick to hit Labour before Corbyn as well. Thereās always been a handful of low level councillors that fail to draw a line between opposing apartheid in Gaza, and sharing comics of big nosed Jews eating babies on Twitter. And I acknowledge that this is mostly because Labour councillors are more likely to be Muslims with family ties to the Middle East in general. It was all overblown by the right wing media to make it seem like the entire Labour cabinet wanted to bring back the gas chambers.
But in fairness you also canāt go and lay a wreath for a Munich massacre terrorist and then expect to go on to be PM of the UK. If that picture was doing the rounds during the Labour leadership contest, I doubt theyād have made him their leader.
Even without all that, I doubt heād have beaten Boris in that election. His Brexit bluster had unified the former UKIP voters under him and that was enough to ensure victory against anyone.
The real reason to hate Corbyn is that heās such a toxic idiot that he hurt Lib Dems getting elected, and theyāre a totally different party.
- Alma Adams (NC)
- Colin Allred (TX)
- Gabe Amo (RI)
- Jake Auchincloss (MA)
- Ami Bera (CA)
- Sanford D. Bishop Jr. (GA)
- Lisa Blunt Rochester (DE)
- Julia Brownley (CA)
- Nikki Budzinski (IL)
- Yadira Caraveo (CO)
- Salud Carbajal (CA)
- Matt Cartwright (PA)
- Kathy Castor (FL)
- Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick (FL)
- Steve Cohen (TN)
- Jim Costa (CA)
- Joe Courtney (CT)
- Angie Craig (MN)
- Jason Crow (CO)
- Henry Cuellar (TX)
- Don Davis (NC)
- Rosa DeLauro (CT)
- Chris Deluzio (PA)
- Anna Eshoo (CA)
- Lizzie Fletcher (TX)
- Lois Frankel (FL)
- Maxwell Frost (FL)
- Ruben Gallego (AZ)
- Jared Golden (ME)
- Vicente Gonzalez (TX)
- Josh Gottheimer (NJ)
- Josh Harder (CA)
- Jahana Hayes (CT)
- Brian Higgins (NY)
- Jim Himes (CT)
- Steven Horsford (NV)
- Steny Hoyer (MD)
- Jared Huffman (CA)
- Jeff Jackson (NC)
- William Keating (MA)
- Derek Kilmer (WA)
- Ann Kuster (NH)
- Greg Landsman (OH)
- John Larson (CT)
- Susie Lee (NV)
- Mike Levin (CA)
- Stephen Lynch (MA)
- Kathy Manning (NC)
- Doris Matsui (CA)
- Kweisi Mfume (MD)
- Joe Morelle (NY)
- Jared Moskowitz (FL)
- Seth Moulton (MA)
- Frank J. Mrvan (IN)
- Richard Neal (MA)
- Joe Neguse (CO)
- Wiley Nickel (NC)
- Donald Norcross (NJ)
- Frank Pallone Jr. (NJ)
- Jimmy Panetta (CA)
- Chris Pappas (NH)
- Bill Pascrell Jr. (NJ)
- Mary Peltola (AK)
- Marie Gluesenkamp PĆ©rez (WA)
- Scott Peters (CA)
- Brittany Pettersen (CO)
- Mike Quigley (IL)
- C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger (MD)
- Adam Schiff (CA)
- Brad Schneider (IL)
- Hillary Scholten (MI)
- Kim Schrier (WA)
- David Scott (GA)
- Terri Sewell (AL)
- Brad Sherman (CA)
- Elissa Slotkin (MI)
- Adam Smith (WA)
- Eric Sorensen (IL)
- Darren Soto (FL)
- Abigail Spanberger (VA)
- Melanie Stansbury (NM)
- Greg Stanton (AZ)
- Haley Stevens (MI)
- Eric Swalwell (CA)
- Emilia Sykes (OH)
- Shri Thanedar (MI)
- Mike Thompson (CA)
- Dina Titus (NV)
- Norma Torres (CA)
- Ritchie Torres (NY)
- David Trone (MD)
- Juan Vargas (CA)
- Marc Veasey (TX)
- Debbie Wasserman Schultz (FL)
- Frederica Wilson (FL)
Well fuck. My reps on there. Shot them a note asking why.
Let us know whether they call you an anti Semite directly or just kinda dance around it.
LOL
Checked the vote roster and only 13 democrats voted nay, while 92 voted present which is dissapointing.
They are putting on a show of being opposed while not doing everything in their power to oppose it. Itās similar energy to when Justin Trudeau joined a BLM protest instead of using his position as prime minister of Canada to take a real stand against police brutality.
The United States is a British/Israeli colony.
Always was.
The problem with this sort of language is that there are a few different things that people call āanti-Zionismā. One is saying Israel does not have a holy right to the entirety of the land of Israel. Another is saying Israel has no right to exist at all. A third is any criticism of Israel or the Israeli leadership.
Only the second is antisemitism, as it implies that Jewish people and their nation should not exist.
Trouble is, it all gets lumped together. Any criticism of the Israeli leadership is fodder for the anti-semites who would wipe out the Jewish people given the opportunity. Any defense of the nation of Israel or the Jewish people is taken as tacit endorsement of the atrocities they are commiting.
This is an unsustainable level of intransigence that leaves no path forward resolving in peace.
No.
Saying the state of Israel has no right to exist is not antisemitic either.
Youāre continuing the deliberate mistake of conflating Israel (a political entity) with Judaism (a religion). Not every Israeli is Jewish, nor is every Jew Israeli. Likewise Israel is not Jewish peoples nation, Jewish people live all over the world and call many nations their home.
Also why do you believe people should have an ethno-state of their own?
How do you eliminate the state of Israel without killing a bunch of Jewish people?
I donāt believe there should be any ethno-states, but thatās not the world we got.
Itās very easy to replace Israel with another state in the same place without killing or moving everyone.
Israel is an ethnostate. Ethnostates are bad. Ethnostates that are religiously motivated are doubly bad.
Israel could be a secular state that treated all ethnicities equally with zero loss in life or need for anyone to leave the area.
They chose not to.
Itās not antisemitism to acknowledge this.
Oh nation building. The US is pretty good at that. I mean, isnāt that how we got here in the first place? Moving a bunch of religious fanatics out of their holy land to make room for the displaced victims of a genocide?
Deflecting, are we?
Not at all, I just donāt think your solution is feasible. The Israeli leadership will not step down peacefully, and Hamas will not accept anything less than total victory. Youāre suggesting a third party take control? Or do you think suddenly everyone involved will just forget all the murder and start singing ākumbayaā?
Lol. Really bad attempt at pivoting.
What pivot? Thatās the argument presented. āThe end of Israel does not require violence because Western nations can build a better nation for the Jewish and Palestinian peoples to live in harmony.ā Does that actually deserve a full rebuttal?
Thatās not how it started at all, the Brits have a lot more to do with this one.
Naturally, but do we expect to be better at it?
I think I may have misunderstood you, I thought you were saying that America was responsible for Israel.
How do you eliminate the state of Israel without killing a bunch of Jewish people?
Destroying a state is not genocidal - no matter how much you want to pretend it to be.
Buddhists doesnāt have a state. They seem to be doing ok.
Iām not trying to argue against you here, I was just curious about the info and wanted to share it.
So, it turns out that Buddhism is actually the official religion for 4 countries: Bhutan, Cambodia, Myanmar, and Sri Lanka. Itās also the majority religion for 3 more states: Thailand, Mongolia, and Laos. Total population of Buddhists exceeds 500 mil, about 7-8% of the worldās population according to 2010s data.
How does this relate to Israel? Precisely fuck all. I just thought it was interesting to share how widespread Buddhism is.
None of those states claim to be āthe Buddhist stateā or that an attack on them is an attack on Buddhism.
Indeed. It has nothing to do with the current situation. I mentioned that.
Ask the Dalai Llama how Buddhists are doing in Tibet, and whether theyād like to have their country back.
That works both ways. At different times in history both Arabs and Jews have lived in the areas now called Israel and Palestine.
The problem is snatching land from the present to punish deeds of the past just creates more sorrow.
I agree completely.
Another is saying Israel has no right to exist at all.
Only the second is antisemitism, as it implies that Jewish people and their nation should not exist.
Completely disagree. Itās a nation like any other. It has as much right to exist as the USA or Constantinople.
Iām not entirely on board with the idea of nations having rights at all. The people living in them do, but I donāt see how an abstract entity should have rights that the people it represents donāt have on their own.
To give a concrete example: the people of Iraq have a right to exist. But itās a country composed of ethnic groups that donāt especially like each other, so having them all live in a single country isnāt necessarily great. I donāt think Iraq has a right to be a country, especially if itās interfering with the right to self-determination of the people living there. Maybe as a practical matter itās better for the country to exist, but rights arenāt supposed to be contingent on practical concerns.
Iām not entirely on board with the idea of nations having rights at all.
Wellā¦ they did make corporations āpeopleā - so there is that kind of lunacy around.
Constantinople was a city, not a nation.
But other than that, I agree that Israel has as much right to exist as any other nation. Saying Israel should not exist is implicitly antisemitic because you canāt get rid of the nation of Israel without wiping out the Jewish people living there.
Saying Israel should not exist is implicitly antisemitic
Bullshit. Jewish people have a right to exist - Israel doesnāt.
How do you get rid of Israel without killing a lot of Jewish people?
Did the US commit genocide by toppling the Taliban, Clyde?
You wanna try something else to prop up your bullshit apologetics or are we done here?
The fuck are you talking about? Did the US topple the Taliban? Last I checked, Afghanistan is still a country, and itās still run by the Taliban. How is that in any way analogous to Israel? Also, not for nothing, but the US has indiscriminately killed a lot of people in the Middle East, but nothing I would categorize as a genocide.
Last I checked, Afghanistan is still a country
And Palestine will still exist when the white supremacist settler-colonialist state squatting on it is dismantled. You knowā¦ Palestine? That place that has been home to Jewish people since before Jesus?
So, again, Clyde - do have something other than white supremacism apologetics to offer?
Whoops. Didnāt know much about Constantinople except the song. Yugoslavia on the other hand was a country but no more. There was violence involved but not out and out genocide.
Thatās OK, I had to look it up myself because there were a lot of city states during the Roman empire, and I wasnāt sure if Constantinople was one of them.
Also, there was the Bosnian genocide.
Funny you picked Yugoslavia where there was definitely an out and out genocide.
Not only was there genocide/ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, the US (through NATO) was directly involved in trying to end it.
You donāt have to kill all the Israeliās to get rid of Israel. Nations are made by people accepting that they exist. Before Israel was Israel it was just a bunch of politically savvy zionists who started telling people to move there. With a lot of wealthy Jewish investors they just started buying land and refusing to let Palestinians work on it. Over time and with enough established countries recognising Israel as its own thing, thatās what it became.
If tomorrow the entire world just decided that Israel didnāt exist then it would cease to, they may object but theyād be invaders occupying land that doesnāt belong to them. It might sound silly but this is how Israel was created.
In theory, sure, but Israelis believe that they have been chosen by God to defend their holy land. They believe they are under attack (which isnāt unfounded, given Hamasā horrific attacks October 7th) and they believe that if they are not in power, that the Arab world will begin another Holocaust (also not unfounded, considering the rhetoric used by Islamic leaders in the region).
And Israel has nuclear weapons.
Before Israel was Israel, it was under British control, and the British army defended the Zionists displacing Palestinians. There were several violent revolts, and many people were killed. They didnāt just buy property until they owned Tel Aviv. Land was taken by force.
Westerners see Israel as an ally, surrounded by jihadists and terrorists and despots fighting tooth and nail to merely continue to exist. And all of that is true, but it creates the false impression that Israelis are somehow more reasonable than the jihadists. That the Jewish people will listen to a rational argument and act responsibly and with reverence to human life. That, if American support goes away, the Israeli leadership will see the writing on the wall and seek a peaceful solution rather than face oblivion.
There is no peaceful end to Israel. You wonāt have to kill all the Jewish people living there, but you will have to kill many of them.
I see what youāre saying, and perhaps youāre right. I am more hopeful, though. Plenty of Israelis support Palestine and in the early days the Palestinians welcomed the Jews. Itās not fair to simply dismiss vast groups of people as irrational or terrorists. At one point in time these people got along, and even though a lot has happened since then I donāt think itās impossible to get back there.
I think Western support does play a large role, itās the reason why the Israeli military is what it is and probably why Israel feels free to indiscriminately attack Palestine. If our support was more conditional and not so one sided it would encourage cooperation and more peaceful resolutions.
Correct because nobody who has any actual power wants peace. What those with power want is to assert their influence.
Just 14 lawmakers voted against the resolution
No wonder it passed
Congress having a normal one
The zionist argument that āanti-zionism is anti-semitismā is a fascist lie. Anyone who spreads this lie is a puppet of Likud.
Zionists have been trying to do this forever.
They donāt argue in good faith.
When zionists run your gvt
Like 2 months ago the only time I heard the word Zionist was in my world religions class, now I guess the entire world is suddenly run by them.
