r/The_Donald now on Lemmy - Lemmy Online
lemmyonline.com
It was banned on Reddit because it is racist, hatefull and spread Conspiracies. In my new community I expect the exclution of racist communities. It is easy now with defederation. Nazis can do whatever they want on their instances, but the instances I want to be part of should not amplify their shit and flush it into our timelines. The instance-admin of !thedonald@sh.itjust.works [/c/thedonald@sh.itjust.works] did not reply to my message. Big instances seem not to defederate with them. The new TD may not be a success, the point is not to give Nazis a platform like it is happening now. Fans of TD are racists. Where are the instances that show face against racism? edit: to contact the admins: @donut@sh.itjust.works @TheDude@sh.itjust.works @smorks@sh.itjust.works
  • narp@feddit.deEnglish
    1·
    2 years ago

    I’m surprised the admin gives it so much thought. Just delete “the Donald” and be done with it. Who is going to complain that they don’t want to give fascists a platform? That’s how you handle them, by not giving them a second thought, all this discussion is already giving them way too much publicity.

    • mr_washee_washee@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      yea. instances admins should have open communication with each other about what is bothering one another and take action for the good of the majority. dont fall for the ‘divide and conquer’ plan

    • hukurowl@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      Correct, which is why any waffling on that decision makes a lot of people suspicious of the admin’s stance on the subject.

  • Contextual Idiot@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    1·
    2 years ago

    I just don’t get it.

    Block the c/TheDonald community. That’s it. That’s all you need to do.

    When it gets no visits, no views, and only it’s handful of users meme-ing each other, it’ll die. One of the big reasons TheDonald took off on Reddit was because of all the attention it got.

    So, don’t give them attention. Don’t feed the trolls.

    I’m not saying to tolerate neo-nazis. But running from them isn’t exactly a time proven strategy, either. They will exist, and it’s up to all of us to remind them that their views are garbage.

    • crowlemo@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      And the same goes for anything else. You don’t like r/politics being a bastion for US democrat biased ans bullshit propaganda? Block it. You don’t want to see republicans talking about being republican (the horror), block it.

      And don’t pretend we all need to agree on everything and be as shittily outraged with the next US centric Google manipulated narrative.

      • God@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        0·
        2 years ago

        Same. I’ve blocked like 50 communities so far. Yet I don’t go around calling to defederate because “omg I just don’t like US news, US has committed atrocities, anyone who posts a US news will get their server defederated!”. Block and keep walking. Life’s too short to spend it crying about the perfectly evitable.

          • Contextual Idiot@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            0·
            2 years ago

            I guess to some people, tolerance is conditional on whether you agree with what they said.

            I’m not going to tolerate neo-nazis over here. I’m going to call out any of their shitty views and takes. Because they aren’t going away. Racism didn’t die, white supremacists didn’t fade away. Folks like to think they came back with Trump, but guess what? The call was coming from inside the room. It was always there, it was just taking a nap and waiting.

            Cutting them off will just put them back into waiting mode, ready to pop up and spread their shit again. We, the society we, need to push back against their shit to keep regular folk from falling for their lies. It’s not going to be easy, and it’s certainly not a one person job. All of us need to do what we can, even if it’s just a downvote.

            Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to unblock TheDonald to see what’s worth downvoting.

            • sexy_peach@feddit.deEnglish
              0·
              2 years ago

              I guess to some people, tolerance is conditional on whether you agree with what they said.

              how is downvoting related to tolerance?

              • Contextual Idiot@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                0·
                2 years ago

                I owe you an apology, @sexy_peach@feddit.de . I didn’t mean to direct that comment only to you, but I see how it came across that way.

                Upvotes and downvotes don’t have modifiers that let you say whether you agree or disagree, whether you think the comment is relevant, or whether you appreciate that someone took the time to respond but you disagree with their points. They’re too broad.

                So without further information, like a reply, no one can really know why an upvote or downvote was cast.

                So, would you care to discuss what I wrote in reply to your post?

              • HTTP_404_NotFound@lemmyonline.comOPEnglish
                0·
                2 years ago

                You literally downvoted him, NOT for the content inside of the comment he made- but, because he chose to voice his opinion.

                That is the definition of intolerance, towards any viewpoint that does not specifically agree with yours.

                His comment, that you disagreed with:

                I just posted my comment in the Lemmy.ml thread, so we’ll see how THAT goes…

            • HTTP_404_NotFound@lemmyonline.comOPEnglish
              0·
              2 years ago

              Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to unblock TheDonald to see what’s worth downvoting.

              I peeked at it earlier. Honestly, really isn’t anything at all of value in there.

              I mean, seriously- it’s just a bunch of really crappy news posts… the kind that looks more like spam then news.

              • Contextual Idiot@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                0·
                2 years ago

                Yeah, it was sad. One dude shouting to the void, basically. If that’s all it takes to get an instance defederated, then the Fediverse is doomed to be small oases in an ocean of fear and hatred.

                • God@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                  0·
                  2 years ago

                  I specifically choose instances based on their instance block list. If they block a lot of instances, I don’t consider them. My ideal ones are the ones that are a bit free and yet are well connected, but sometimes well connected means “allied to the mass defederators” because people in general become super compliant in the face of isolation.

                  Sh.itjust.works may start banning communities to regain federation to Beehaw, and then Beehaw will ask that sh.itjust.works defederate a “wrong” instance or two, and by the time we know it, we’ll all be banning the same instances, and we’ll be a cute little echo chamber of “tolerance”.

                  By that same measure, I usually avoid any instance of community that claims to be a “safe place”. They’re the likeliest to always be attacking others because that’s how you stay safe, through unending violence.

                • HTTP_404_NotFound@lemmyonline.comOPEnglish
                  0·
                  2 years ago

                  Fediverse is doomed to be small oases in an ocean of fear and hatred.

                  Tell me about it.

                  I don’t think many people realize how little effort it would take me, to go and create a bot that just creates accounts on their instance, and then posts pro-trump things on other instances.

                  Let that run for, oh. a day or two, and I imagine that would be the end of federation for everyone.

  • ItsJason@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    1·
    2 years ago

    Let’s just all take a breath. This instance has its rules, and I expect them to be adhered to for content on this instance.

    Let’s give moderator time to get involved, and the community time to navigate precident setting actions. I think it is cool this instance is being set up to be self governing. But it’s just getting set up. And people work and are otherwise not constantly available.

    • Yote.zip@pawb.socialEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      I’m not from this instance but I’d caution heavily against letting an instance with open signups in a fediverse with a bot problem be ‘self-governing’.

      • Difficult_Bit_1339@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        0·
        2 years ago

        We’re not just running polls and blindly following the results. I think the the goal of having a community discussion place is to help identify the people who are actively trying to participate in the process and then take their views into account in deciding the future of things.

        Ultimately, like all instances this is functionally a dictatorship because @TheDude runs the server and has the ultimate say in everything. He’s created an area where people can voice their opinions and his intentions appear to be to parse the discussion and make an informed decision based on the results.

        I doubt he’d be fooled by some position suddenly having 2500 bot comments saying ‘Nay’.

        • Yote.zip@pawb.socialEnglish
          0·
          2 years ago

          I just briefly looked at an agora post and it seems like that’s exactly what’s happening: lots of “Aye” with no discussion. Scrolling through more, people seem to be using upvotes/downvotes for voting.

          By all means if you have a system in place to handle bots that have access to chatGPT then don’t mind me, I’m just saying that bots should be taken into account lest humans get outvoted.

          • can@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            0·
            2 years ago

            There are votingg threads and discussion. lemmy doesn’t have a flair system.

          • Difficult_Bit_1339@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            0·
            2 years ago

            It’s not an easy problem to solve and I agree that it has the potential to become a large problem going forward (LLMs make the bot problem even more difficult to deal with).

            I’ve no idea how TheDude decides what opinion to follow but, so far, he’s piloted the instance as well as anyone could expect so I’m willing to keep riding along to see where things go.

  • can@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    0·
    2 years ago

    Was going to post this at thedonald but found I’m already banned. Oh well, it was low effort anyway. If anyone who isn’t banned wants to execute this better please be my guest.

  • TheDailyChase@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    0·
    2 years ago

    I didn’t know about it until I checked Beehaw. It’s easy enough to block the community so I can’t see it, but I would rather it not be here. TheDonald and The Agora feel like polar opposite ideals.

          • yarr@lemmy.fmhy.mlEnglish
            0·
            2 years ago

            If you think selling unregulated ice cream is the worst example of capitalist misdeeds you have a very limited imagination.

          • Black616Angel@feddit.deEnglish
            0·
            2 years ago

            Oh yeah, the whole climate change can be more or less traced back to managers only thinking about the next profits but let’s say, it’s only unregulated ice cream…

            (not saying the genocide doesn’t happen, but capitalism probably Skills more people than China)

              • Black616Angel@feddit.deEnglish
                0·
                2 years ago

                Nice pictures!
                Now do all the wars, the US has started in the last 70 years.
                And don’t forget their “war on drugs” as well as the opioid crisis, constant gun massacres, slaves in third world countries and so on.

                Again, I do not want to play down any massacre done by any regime but your “natural default” is just straight up bullshit.
                Capitalism only holds that long because people think they can be the ones spitting down.
                In socialism all shall be equal but people want to be better than others.

              • carbon_based@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
                0·
                2 years ago

                (… no i will not quote and emphasize that last sentence …)
                My goodness, what are you doing on this server? Who has tormented your mind wich such garbage?

              • yarr@lemmy.fmhy.mlEnglish
                0·
                2 years ago

                Capitalism is the natural default after all.

                Capitalism, as we understand it today, is a relatively recent development in human history. For the vast majority of human existence, societies have been structured around other forms of economic organization like tribalism, feudalism, or mercantilism. Capitalism is not the default but a system that evolved over time in response to specific historical, technological, and social conditions.

                There are multiple successful economies worldwide that blend elements of capitalism with other economic systems, such as the Nordic model of social democracy, which combines free market capitalism with a strong welfare state. If capitalism were the default, we would not see such variety in economic systems.

          • Cyborganism@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
            0·
            2 years ago

            I get your point. He may be a CCP apologist, but it’s not the CCP itself.

            Also, his project IS open source so… let’s fork it? Maybe it’s the only way we can ensure that the software is not being directed by any political bs.

  • Frz@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    0·
    2 years ago

    Seeing people here pushing back for once against the trigger-happy defederating mindset actually gives me hope in the future of this instance.

    • oldfart@lemm.eeEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      Yes! This has been a disaster on Mastodon, hopefully Lemmy will not repeat these mistakes

      • Cyborganism@lemmy.caEnglish
        0·
        2 years ago

        Good.

        The admins of Lemmyworld and Beehaw should be notified so they can de-defederate this server.

        They took action so quickly it seems. Notifying the server admins and giving the them some time to fix the issue first might have been a better way to approach this instead of defederating outright without the chance to correct the situation.

        • hschen@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          0·
          2 years ago

          Did lemmy.world ever defederate?, seems like it was just that post that was calling for it. Beehaw defederated from both about a week ago due to spammers

        • Numuruzero@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          0·
          2 years ago

          If I understand correctly this wasn’t the aggravating issue, just a coincidence. Beehaw at least defederated because there were an outside number of problem users from both of the other servers and they felt like it was beyond their capacity (at the moment) to moderate that properly. They did reach out to the server admins at the time and there are plans to work together and create more robust mod tools.

  • wxboss@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    0·
    2 years ago

    I could be wrong here (so forgive me), but wasn’t one of the reasons that people flocked to this instance and others was because they didn’t want some ‘overseer’ to make judgments on their behalf? Did they not come here for the freedom to choose what was important and meaningful to them and disregard that which wasn’t?

    I realize that there are growing pains going on here - that these instances which have been fairly unknown and relatively steady in their user base have now exploded in popularity and have caused many an issue upon communities and admins that were not prepared for such an explosive influx of users.

    If we all really want to come together as a community, I believe it is important to understand all of the dynamics that are currently evolving and allow some time for all of this tumult (and influx of users) to settle down before demanding certain actions to be taken.

    • HaveYouTriedCats@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      0·
      2 years ago

      Personally, I came to sh.itjustworks because when choosing a server the message was “these more popular servers aren’t taking new people, go elsewhere.”

      It said that there would be no bigotry tolerated and I took that at face value and it generally aligned with what I was looking for otherwise and was accepting new users, so I signed up.

      I can’t speak for others.

      Now how that’s evolving (Agora, etc) so it’s a work in progress and you’re right, things aren’t necessarily moving on a timeline that suits everyone (including me) because many people are not used to situations where we’re having to figure it out as we go along, so here we are.

  • Wigglehard@exploding-heads.comEnglish
    0·
    2 years ago

    I for one will never defederate from shit just works cz why would i want to, we fkn belong together broskis like two stoners fighting over the last bag of weed man, lets share this shit together bro, no need to get all crazy, lets just chill, accept we got differences and enjoy the space, all that defederate talk is wack

    • mr_washee_washee@kbin.social
      0·
      2 years ago

      why are u downvoted ? shitjustworks, well works… just great.they r implementing captcha and email verification so why all the noise? and if people are bothered by the donald community, they could just block like i did. i sometimes doubt the iq of some of the people here smh

  • anthromusicnote@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    0·
    2 years ago

    Defederation is a double-edged sword. In the end, those who defederate will lock themselves into a smaller space and lose out on content produced by users outside of their instance. With how hard it currently is to discover content, a big instance defederating from lots of other instances with little good reason can easily backfire. At least that’s how I see it from what I currently understand about Lemmy.

    I think people are trying to defederate to filter content, which is not something that defederating is good for right now, cause every big instance has a lot of diverse communities. Also, there’s been concerns about bots and safety which makes sense, but that doesn’t mean that we’re under risk of staying defederated permanently or for any significant amount of time. Moderation tools, content filtering and discovery needs to become much better before that resolved for everyone in a satisfying way.

    As for /c/thedonald and communities like it specifically, it’s ridiculous to take what seems to me as satire as 100% serious straight up bigotry, but I do understand that we’ve seen communities with origins in satire turn to serious on the internet before. I think an instance-wide flag for communities that signals that the content is satire when you open them or see a post from them. Allow communities to be created with it from the start but only modifiable by admins afterwards, so you can’t take it away or add it after a community is made. It might just work to mitigate this problem and help punish rule breaking quicker and easier.