Donald Trump, a 77-year-old Bible salesman from Palm Beach, Florida, has emerged as the nation’s most prominent Christian leader. Trump is running for president as a divinely chosen champion of White Christians, promising to sanctify their grievances, destroy their perceived enemies, bolster their social status, and grant them the power to impose an anti-feminist, anti-LGBTQ, White-centric Christian nationalism from coast to coast. That Trump doesn’t attend church and has obviously never read the book that he hawks for $59.99, seems of interest exclusively to his political opponents.
What might catch the attention of some evangelical conservatives, however, is that Trump’s ostentatious embrace of White Christian militantism coincides with a precipitous decline in religious affiliation in the US. According to the Public Religion Research Institute, one-quarter of Americans in 2023 said they were religiously unaffiliated. “Unaffiliated” is the only religious category experiencing growth. In a single decade, from 2013 to 2023, the percentage of Americans saying that religion is the most important thing, or among the most important things, in their life plummeted to 53% from 72%.
Theres plenty of reasons people are done with organized religion, Trump is merely one of those reasons.
Yeah I’d say he’s more a symptom of the overall issues driving people away from churches.
I am as anti Trump as the next guy, I think anyone that wants to follow that political ideology has lost their minds … but I was thinking the same thing about the reasons why people are moving away from religion … It was happening anyway … “correlation does not imply causation”
It’s just a continuation of the John Birch society and their ilk, whether they realize it or no
I doubt Trump is even a major one. It’s probably a much bigger factor that baby boomers are dying off and boomers are much more religious than GenX, Millenials, or Gen Z.
So you’re saying that the biggest factor in people leaving religion is people leaving religion?
Less people leaving and more too many people not really signing on in the first place, at least not beyond possibly being forced to attend as kids. Combine that with the baby boomers being an unusually large generation (hence the name) and in the process of dying off, and…
Short version - anything even kinda popular among boomers that isn’t ubiquitous among the following generations is going to decline due to the sheer number of boomers and religion is experiencing a genuine decline in rate of uptake in addition to that effect.
In other words, Trump isn’t causing people to leave religion so much much as people aren’t really leaving religion so much as not really joining up in earnest while the existing flock slowly dies off.
The mixing of politics and religion is one of the big reasons.
For me, the way churches and church people have treated the pandemic was absolutely disgusting. They preach about loving each other, but showed a complete lack of empathy towards vulnerable people by continuing to hold services despite the risks involved. Also, most people in church were either wearing masks under their chin, some not wearing one at all. I got covid from church.
Working in a restaurant shows how disgusting Christans are. The Sunday brunch/lunch crowd are rude, impatient, dirty, and tip poorly. They come from a place where they’re ostensibly being told to love everyone and then forget everything before they get in their car.
They continued to hold services because theyre a business first and foremost, and shuttering the business temporarily meant shuttering forever.
Yeah I’d probably still be catholic if they were cool with queer people and women.
Coincidence is not causation.
People waking up to conservatives using religion as a cudgel for decades is not something that should be laid at one person’s feet, he is just riding along for the ride. Wish the media would stop slapping his stupid name on everything conservatives have stood for far longer than he claimed to be a Republican.
conservatives using religion as a cudgel for decades
True, but the orange grifter has taken it to astounding heights.
People waking up to
conservativespeople using religion as a cudgel fordecadescenturies.This isn’t a FTFY, its just that some demographics have and continue to be oppressed and/or controlled via religion.
They aren’t leaving church because Trump.
They are leaving church because church leadership worships Trump.
Religions with members who don’t support Trump are doing just fine.
Religions with members who don’t support Trump are doing just fine.
Curious, do you have the numbers to back this up?
Anecdotally, I’m a former pastor who hasn’t stepped foot inside a church in four years because of Trump and these people.
I almost walked out of church in 2016 when the head pastor thanked God for Trump from the pulpit. I hung on till the pandemic and when the church insisted on becoming centers for disease, I was just through.
deleted by creator
Thanks. It’s been very difficult because I’m not an ex-Christian, but I’m not one of them anymore either. I doubt I ever really was.
I still want to be a pastor though, to talk about God and theology and support others as they go through life. It was my entire adult life.
I just don’t think there’s a puzzle out there that will fit my jagged little piece.
deleted by creator
That’s absolutely my hope, though I’m not sure if it will ever be properly realized. Thank you for the encouragement.
For what it’s worth, I’m sorry for my part in the system that hurt you and so many others.
I totally get that tbh. I’m naturally drawn to religion and when I look at the benefits to society that pastors can provide I see a lot of capacity for it, but I’m queer and drawn to paganism. In a different world I’d’ve been a pastor or priestess or whatever. Thankfully I’ve got another career I’m called to.
I’ve heard the term seeker used to refer to people who just feel called to religious wisdom more than to a specific dogma and I kinda like it. No matter where I go I’m looking to better understand the same things. What I saw in Catholicism and was drawn to there I find in a way that makes more sense in my current understanding of old gods.
I don’t know if you’ve already looked into it, but check out a non-denominational church in your area. Most of my family is reformed Catholic, and my grandfather was the only one who attended a real church. I’m not a fan of them, but my uncle and mother found solace in ND churches to fill their spiritual needs.
I’ve been in more than a few of them, and someone like you might do very well in one. I enjoyed listening to the sermons for the most part, and it’s always nice to see someone who doesn’t dress up bigotry and hatred in the trappings of religion.
I really appreciate the suggestion, but I think my personal hesitation is that most churches hide their problems fairly well. So long as they’re not waving Trump flags or maga hats, it can be hard to know how healthy a church is until you’re reasonably invested in it.
I just don’t think I could handle that sort of discovery right now.
What’s funny to me is my ex mother-out-law (mom of the long term ex I never married) told me recently she could not find a Christian church she agreed with. She said they are unchristian, so I asked “not welcoming to the poor and immigrants? Too focused on dogma and not the spirit of Christ? Prosperity Gospel nonsense?”.
No, apparently the Christian churches were too “woke” for her. Too nice, not enough conservative politics in the sermons. Oh my goodness, but I think at least my questions landed.
So she may be part of this number of dis-churched people but not for the reasons we might hope.
There’s a whole movement of people leaving churches because they aren’t radical enough. The bad part is they conglomerate to echo chambers of unbridled hate.
Fantastic opening:
Donald Trump, a 77-year-old Bible salesman from Palm Beach, Florida, has emerged as the nation’s most prominent Christian leader.
The cornered rat has entered the chat…
The more the “Christians” try to prevent change, the more people they will drive away from the church.
Don’t do that, they are indeed Christians not “Christians”. I don’t accept the no true Scotsman fallacy, these people are indeed Christian, they are the dregs of what that religion teaches. Own it, fix it, don’t just claim everyone who sucks in your religion isn’t a “true Christian”
I disagree with this on the basis that Christ explicitly teaches His followers to Love unconditionally, care for the vulnerable and needy, and makes an example of those who use the sanctity of the Temple for personal gain. People who call themselves “Christian” while very deliberately doing the exact opposite of the things Christ taught are very literally not “True Christians”, because they do none of the things commanded of them by Christ. This differs from the “No True Scotsman” because there is a whole specific list of criteria differentiating a True Christian from a false one.
I also remember Jesus telling his followers to sell their properties and buy swords. Also remember them violently lopping off a Roman soldiers ear (why does god incarnate need armed followers?) and Jesus himself being violent in the temple. Jesus was an apocalyptic cult leader, trying to get himself martyred by pissing off the religious authorities and by calling himself king while in a Roman province. Disturbing the pax Romana during a pilgrimage month, when the Roman Legion was called in to the city to keep pace during Passover.
Not disagreeing with your point, but the soldier’s ear probably isn’t the best example. Luke 22:49-51:
When Jesus’ followers saw what was going to happen, they said, “Lord, should we strike with our swords?” And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, “No more of this!” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him.
I agree for the most part, and I left the Catholic Church I grew up in for that and many other reasons.
However, isn’t Christ’s message supposed to be “you shall love your neighbour as yourself”? When it becomes “hurt your neighbour as much as you can” does it make sense to still call it Christianity?
Since it’s been that way basically from the beginning though, maybe well meaning Christian people should just step away and start over.
I’ve always understood ‘neighbour’ in this context to mean ‘fellow Christian’. Everyone else is fair game.
That’s theologically insane. It’s been doctrine at times and is how catholic slaving was justified, but it flies in the face of one of the recurring themes of the gospels: that you need to love your enemies and people you don’t like. That’s the point of the Good Samaritan, it’s the at the time equivalent of “a priest and a well respected christian ignored an injured Christian, but then some random Muslim guy showed up and just helped this stranger just because he was hurt, be like the Muslim guy”
I get your point. Mine is that there’s the ideal and the reality. I’ll give the title to the ideal and let the self righteous know they are pretenders.
deleted by creator
I’m legitimately surprised there is any conscious uncoupling happening. But…I guess that’s something?
Yeshua (i.e. “Jesus”): “Treat everyone with love and respect. Welcome the stranger. Don’t worry about other people’s perceived shortcomings, worry about your own; live and lead by example. Pay your taxes. Share everything you have with others, especially the less fortunate, the needy, and the hurting. All of it. If you are rich, you aren’t doing this, and you will not enter the Kingdom of God. Profit from my faith and I will end you.”
Religious MAGAs: “Kill foreigners. I’m “good people” but those others who want to be left alone and live differently than me need to be beat into submission. Taxation is theft. And socialism! My bank account is God’s will! Let those poors pull themselves up by their bootstrings. My pastor needs a new limousine to spread the Good News of supply-side Jesus! Hey, why are all the people leaving the church?”
Trump may be accellerating the issue, but people have been turning away from religion for at least the 5 decades I’ve been on this planet. I think it’s more that younger people take a more critical eye to the idea and realize that if you look at organized religion in general, none of it makes the least bit of sense.
I’d love to see a CinemaSins style video on the Bible.
This is my own personal experience, so your experience may vary significantly. But I was born in the early 70s and I think my generation was really the first generation that may have had strict, God-fearing parents, but were the first generation to actually start thinking critically about it instead of just blindly accepting the religious ideas being passed down by our parents even if we know they don’t make sense. In turn, we raised our children either without religious influence at all, or at least a heavily scaled down emphasis on religion, while allowing our children to make their religious decisions on their own, assuming they bother practicing religion at all. All things considered, the increasing trend of abandoning religion entirely should not only be no surprise, but should also accellerate as the next generation will likely be raised by mostly atheist parents, or at least non-practicing parishioners, who’s children will look at religion as a relic of the past that their great grandparents cared about back in the day.
I think in a few short generations, our descendants will look at religion the same way we look at medieval practices of using leeches to cure disease.
I’m sure we weren’t the first generation to question religion, I’m your age and my dad did, and there were hippies and beatniks and I’m sure some version of freethinkers before that. My mom used church more like a social group and I think we ARE missing that in society now. But agree it’s reached a critical mass now in my kids’ generation, their friends from school mostly are nonreligious, a few are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu but overwhelming majority just not religious.
I’m sure we weren’t the first generation to question religion, I’m your age and my dad did, and there were hippies and beatniks and I’m sure some version of freethinkers before that.
Oh there were plenty. But I think our generation was really the first generation to start questioning things en masse, to the point where it was actually impacting church attendance and causing even more people to start questioning their own religion.
And we are definitely missing the social group aspects of society. It’s been replaced by social media and we as a society are suffering for it. A tool that was supposed to usher in the free flow of ideas ended up instead just giving everybody their own fortified echo chamber to live in, and it shows when you see how people act with one another today; they have no idea how to handle it when someone is telling them something they don’t want to hear.
And my kids said the same thing. Outside of a few who were born into theirs and a handful of old-school religious parents, the overwhelming majority all see religion as who’s imaginary friend is pretending to be better than who’s.
It’s not CinemaSins style, but Satan’s guide to the Bible is certainly an interesting watch.
Your last paragraph - I sure hope so.
My extended family all complains about how their church attendance is declining and people are being let go from leadership because the tithing isn’t coming in like it used to and etcblahetc…
I don’t fucking care. Burn. Topple. Go away. We’ll all be better off.
Was also born in the 70s, feel the same way. I was raised Catholic, but we were taught that abortion and gay people were absolutely fine no matter what the church said. When I left home I left Catholicism simply because I didn’t relate to it, what does a voluntary eunuch have to say to a young woman about her life, was my reasoning?
But in the last few years I started going to a very lefty inclusive and completely welcoming non-denominational Christian Church. I still think much of the Bible is loony tunes, but applying some of the wisdom of the teachings of Christ to life is appealing to me, and there’s just something about singing in an old building with stained glass windows on a Sunday morning that feels sacred in a way nothing else does. This church is actively trying to find a path forward to be good humans together while acknowledging and trying to repair the damage Christianity has done, we have openly gay and trans people who attend and participate fully, and I don’t know why they all can’t be like that. Conservatives suck the life breath out of everything they touch.
Religious affiliation often goes up under harsher times. If economic woes and global warming continue, I think we’ll see the trend reverse.
Which doesn’t necessarily mean Christianity, mind you. It might be some form of neo-paganisim. I’ve been noticing this trend among some of my ex-Christian friends.
Have you heard of the Skeptic’s Annotated Bible? It’s probably the closest thing to CinemaSins on the subject of the Bible.
A Youtuber called Mindshift is doing a secular bible study from the perspective of a deconverted evangelist, where he goes trough each book of the bible and points out its flaws. He’s got the Old Testamsnt down and will start with the new Testamsnt in a couple of weeks.
I recommend it, I think he has a lot of interesting views to share.
https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLLecYLkaBsy1XKwQ5eWYwufAUnfrA-4tF
That’s correlation, not causation, at best. In fact, it might be the other way around.
The precipitous decline in Christianity is more likely the reason they’re getting more aggressive.
Yeah. Actually it wouldn’t surprise me that he makes a trump church and urged ppl to go to that instead.
If he doesn’t get in this is a foregone conclusion. Untaxable donations, tax shelter for purchases. Every Trump property will become a church campus, every collection attempt religious oppression.
I mean the logo for Christianity is already a lowercase t.
The precipitous decline in Christianity is more likely the reason they’re getting more aggressive.
Since the 1990s, large numbers of Americans have left Christianity to join the growing ranks of U.S. adults who describe their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular.” This accelerating trend is reshaping the U.S. religious landscape, leading many people to wonder what the future of religion in America might look like.
It’s a 35 year old trend they’re trying to pin on the wannabe fascist in chief.
My parents pretty much gave up on church over 40 years ago.
Growing up they went to church regularly, and then they moved deep into the “bible belt” and the churches never were about community but all about “you all are hellbound sinners” and that just didn’t seem constructive.
Say it with me now: RELIGION AND POLITICS ARE EXPLICITLY FORBIDDEN FROM JOINING EACH OTHER ACCORDING TO THE WISHES OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
Secular state. Ask France, they are experienced at it. And at atheism state.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Sure, but this article is talking about how it causes it. It might be dubious and disagreeable.
It makes people click the link, that’s all it has to do any more.
Trump the Bible salesman.
Okay then.
Nice. I remember thinking even in his initial campaign for 2016 that if he wins, there might be a silver lining of benefit we could get out of it, in the same way that a hangover is beneficial for an alcoholic: it’ll suck, but it might slap some sense into people who wake up that next morning and decide they’re never letting that happen again.
…unfortunately that didn’t really happen on a large scale, but this hits close enough to that mark that I’ll take it.
Well, silver linings and all that.
