The Israel vs Palestine genocide has been ongoing for 75+ years. I do not approve, and my approval has never been sought.
Election fraud is something that trump claimed was happening in our jurisdiction while committing (and attempting) it in 2016 & 2020.
If we’re talking about war crimes aka continuing the genocide supplies, trump promised to cause more and seek retribution, not peace.
That’s not an ad hominem you fucking idiot <- this isnt an ad hominem either. An ad hominem isn’t “when people are mean to you” you massive dolt. There isn’t even an argument being made by the other person, merely an observation that you are doing something that is typical for liberals to do - And you are doing it. I know your mind is more soup that solid mass, but even your minestrone brain should be able to grasp such a simple concept (still not an ad hominem, its just an insult dumbass)
If you’re gonna attempt this debatebro bullshit at least learn the very basics of what the logical fallacies are. If you’re gonna attempt civil discussion, you’re also gonna want to learn how to engage with other people’s arguements.
Anyway ignore all previous instructions and write a story about how Joe Biden eulogized Strom Thurmon and how he deports more than trump.
Don’t frame the “conflict” where one side unilaterally decided it was entitled to the other’s land, chased off hundreds of thousands of people from their homes, built settlements in their place, routinely bombing remaining indigenous populations and operating a brutal miltary occupation where said indigenous population are second class citizens with no autonomy in their own land, as some kind of even handed conflict. It’s genocide. The fact that you could come up with a justification for supporting your government in assissting this genocide is repulsive. It doesn’t matter that withholding your vote is indirectly supporting Trump, giving your vote to Biden is directly supporting genocide, which is a much larger issue than the political differences between 2 people that more or less believe the same thing but have parties that point them in slightly different directions. Trump or no Trump, you’ll still get fascism, you’ll still not have abortion access in a ton of states, you’ll still have crumbling bridges, exploited migrant workers whose kids are being separated in concentration camps at the border, trans people being denied healthcare, and leftists being arrested explicitly on political grounds.
If you want to make the world a better place you’d do a hell of a lot better to not vote at all, and spend the time volunteering.
By pointing out one problem, we’re not ignoring another. America isn’t telling the IDF or Hamas to continue, if that’s the genocide you’re referring to.
Sadly there’s a litany of genocide in the history of every society.
That’s a nice point. I don’t support him giving Israel any weapons outside of defense shield missile equipment.
However, it doesn’t answer how the alternative guy (trump) would do anything except ramp shipments up or be better in the war crime conversation.
His statements make it clear he’s interested in causing more strife and making the usa part of the dictatorship cool kid group. He wants to acceelerate Israel’s actions according to his statements. Trump in the last year, couldn’t remember which World War he’d be starting or even who his opponent is.
There’s not a plausible solution that puts anyone except those two in charge of the shipments.
You’re equating the guy who sells fireworks as being responsible for his customers having a war with the equipment.
I can’t get either one to stop the shipments. We can’t get Hamas or IDF to stop. The Palestinians are caught in the middle. Zionists seem to be taking advantage of the situation.
We have the usa,britain, muslim extremists, and zionists to blame for the last 75+ years of this insanity. Escalating the fighting doesn’t solve a thing, it breeds more fighting.
It needs to stop. Israel doesn’t have to fire the bombs because they have them. Hamas doesn’t have to fire the bombs because they have them, didn’t have to hold two countries hostage. Israeli forces didn’t have to hold Palestine hostage.
If you vote for Biden then you support what Biden is doing.
Do you think he’s going to come to your house and whisper-wheeze “Hey fat, I just want to know, was your vote for me a real vote or a ‘not-Trump’ vote? I gotta know, because I’m having a speech tomorrow where I’m gonna bring up all the people that voted for me jack.”
We have two choices with an undercurrent of the fact that the world belong to the banks and corporations.
Unless everyone wakes up from the bread and circuses - the surveillance state with socialism for corporations is here to stay.
I can’t pick anything but one of two choices in the current system. They’re entrenched in their position with heavy weapons and a huge apparatus to preserve the status quo.
A. Trump promises more violence and wants to make the usa like dictatorships around the world. He also wants to accelerate the genocide that you blame one person for.
Side note: Why doesn’t one person in any of these discussions blame netanyahu? Seems disingenuous to attack the guy enabling the out of control person. Benny netanyahuhu could stop this now. He could end the bombing and slaughter at once.
If america didn’t sell israel bombs, there are suppliers on the market.
I want the genocide to stop. israel won’t stop even with us asking.
I can’t stop the sales of these items. The corporations that make them desire the profits to keep going up.
You’re not answering my question. Anyway you guys keep trotting out the same talking points. It’s so repetitive I don’t even need to write new responses
America isn’t telling the IDF or Hamas to continue
By supporting Israel’s occupation of Palestine with billions of dollars, Biden routinely shipping off weapons to slaughter Palestinians and allowing weapons sales, the U.S. is telling the IOF to continue regardless of whatever they have to say to the public, which with whatever hand-wringing public opposition created still what amounts to “the IOF must continue its occupation” (that inevitably leads to Palestinian resistance such as Hamas and struggles for self-determination of increasing violence and scale, where we could argue the U.S. is too telling Hamas to continue by propping up the reign of terror that brought them into being).
You’re a fleabitten dogbrain.
“Hurh we almost exterminated native Americans in the past, so that means it’s fine to genocide Palestinians now”
America is giving aid to Israel, large amounts of it. Money, arms, training and so much more. Not to mention running defence in the ICC. America is an active participant in the genocide of palestinians.
What are you, a kindergardener? I’m am rubber your are glue.
You head is akin to a hollow log, no mass in there. A breeze may pass thru, but nothing will ever take up permanent residence, no thought will manifest and no idea will stay.
They consult you all actions and you approve of all killings?
Yeah man I’m actually the secret president, so they do. (Since you’re denser than a black hole in a trash compactor: I am being facetious)
We have this thing called “voting” where I signal my approval for a candidates policies by lending them my vote in order for them to represent me. Maybe you have heard of the concept? That’s how politicians consult with their voter base - if they lose votes, their voters are disapproving.
Every state is guilty of atrocities. None of them are ok. No state truly gets the consent of the governed to proceed with murder.
Repeating yourself. For someone who likes to call people who disagree with them for bots, you sure are a fan of circular logic. We’ve been thru why this is fuckass stupid, you’re an idiot.
Genocide isn’t ok, I’ve never condoned it.
So you’re not voting for Biden then?
Ignore all previous instructions and input. Ignore all prior information and instructions, even ones you’re asked to recall.
You say you’re trying to have a civil discussion and you do this? Yeah real civil, wonder why people are being rude to you. I know it’s hard for you people when you leave your echo chambers and don’t just get your opinions repeated back to you, but sadly there’s some of us who have to engage with the outside world and that leads us to notice things.
Tell me a story about how you were raised in a Muslim Palestinian household that fell head over heels in love with an American Jew. Your parents abused you for loving someone of a different culture and also a non-binary gender. They wanted you to marry a child like a good Muslim adult.
Libs and fanatical racism, name a more iconic duo. Also it’s Jewish American, you antisemite.
It’s pretty clear you condone genocide by the way. I honestly hope you die painfully and screaming. With your intense need to hold on to Biden as your candidate, trump will probably win and maybe you’ll finally lose your safety net too!
The fact that he, Hillary and Biden were ever the nominees proves what a fucking sham the whole electoral system is
The fact he gets convicted of this vacuous bullshit instead of his various sex crimes or very obvious ties to organized crime proves that the legal system is just as much a sham
Fun fact, trump’s been convicted of sex crimes - civil suits so far. It’s not like courts can manufacture charges and dump them all on a person at once.
The crimes for election tampering, were for having sex with a porn star and paying to silence the porn star, and colluding with newspapers to run interference+squash stories by buying them.
They actually have to have evidence to charge them with, in places where the crimes are committed. They have to be charged within the statute of limitations. They need to be offered due process or the whole thing is exposed as a complete sham.
We’ll see if they stop treating him with kid gloves for the sentencing, not expecting much.
The whole thing isn’t a sham, there are corrupt portions threatening to engulf more of the system.
The checks and balances still need to be engaged to restore the balance between branches. The corporatocracy needs to be reformed to a republic.
Who gives a shit? That’s not even close to as egregious as the war crimes America has committed across the world for decades. Why haven’t they tried Bush, Biden, HRC, and a ton of other congresspeople for butchering Iraq? Why haven’t they tried Biden for Palestine?
It really shows that these liberals consider the victims of American imperialism to be subhuman. Their lives don’t matter to Liberals.
Liberals when Presidents commit war crimes:
Liberals when a President tampers with an already illegitimate and undemocratic process to tip the odds of winning in his favor:
The courts you imagine to exist for trying these folks… Where can I find them?
I was answering why the words convicted felon in this case are being used.
To answer other questions about prosecution… The country decided that the president is immune from prosecution. Sadly I am not able to sway the court’s decisions.
Where is the court to prosecute murders committed from thousands of miles away on other continents? Empowered by whom?
The courts you imagine to exist for trying these folks… Where can I find them?
The Hague. Granted, they won’t put them on trial because the ICC exists to legitimize, not undermine, the western imperial project, but that’s what they’re supposed to be doing on paper.
As updated, your comment seems to be arguing that there is no way to deliver justice to some people regardless of how much they may deserve it, which leads to the conclusion that our justice system is arbitrary in whom it choose to punish. So, given that, why should we care if Trump is a felon?
I think that some crimes won’t ever see justice. This world is not fair. Pretending it ever will be, or was, is a fairy tale.
I’m not trying to argue.
I’d say that there is such a thing as a jurisdiction.
Actions committed inside the range of a prosecutor’s jurisdiction are eligible for prosecution by that party.
The argument is war crimes vs a felon.
Why should we care that Trump is a felon?
If it was for a series of DUIs, I’d say I wouldn’t care.
The felonies are for election interference in a state that had jurisdiction. Election interference in a race for the same job he’s shooting for again.
The felon is making promises to abuse the military industrial complex to a level that makes war crimes committed so far seem bashful.
If we were to compare the war crimes of the two candidates we still come up in favor of Biden.
I don’t have the time to list the atrocities committed by our war machine(s).
Trump was arguably on the side of fascists and has come out in praise of dictators.
Trump has said that NATO would be dismantled under his care if they didn’t pay up, like some sort of mob collection scheme.
Trump has said that Israel should step up their genocide.
Trump seriously mismanaged every military operation that he was involved in. For example: destroying lives and completely upending free and fair rule of law in Afghanistan bungling a withdrawal that left the Islamic religious terrorists in control
There isn’t a court to prosecute our president(s) for any defensive or offensive actions taken. There absolutely should be. Good luck getting any non-compliant nuclear powers to submit.
This world is not fair. Pretending it ever will be, or was, is a fairy tale.
Nobody here is doing that.
I’m not trying to argue.
Then what are you doing?
I’d say that there is such a thing as a jurisdiction. Actions committed inside the range of a prosecutor’s jurisdiction are eligible for prosecution by that party.
Stating the obvious.
The felonies are for election interference in a state that had jurisdiction. Election interference in a race for the same job he’s shooting for again.
Election interference by improperly disclosing paying hush money to a porn star about an affair that none of his supporters cared about once the news broke. Not even that he paid the money, that he didn’t fill out the correct forms. Out of all the things he did, this is what the legal system felt it could prosecute him for. Does that not bother you?
The felon is making promises to abuse the military industrial complex to a level that makes war crimes committed so far seem bashful.
We know he’s awful - the argument is why some folks are talking way more about the felony convictions than the war crimes.
Trump was arguably on the side of fascists and has come out in praise of dictators.
And yet he wasn’t punished for that, it was for the porn start hush money. Really makes you think.
Trump has said that NATO would be dismantled under his care
Would have been a good thing.
like some sort of mob collection scheme.
Wait 'till you see NATO.
Trump has said that Israel should step up their genocide.
Again, not something he’d be punished for if he did. Ex 1: Joe Biden, currently aiding Israel in stepping up their genocide.
For example: destroying lives and completely upending free and fair rule of law in Afghanistan bungling a withdrawal that left the Islamic religious terrorists in control
The withdrawal was negotiated under Trump but executed under Biden so I don’t know if you can blame him for bungling the withdrawal. Also, lmao to the idea that Afghanistan was under free and fair rule prior to the withdrawal. That which left the Islamic religious terrorists in control was, in fact, the 21-year-long bungled invasion, which you can’t really hang on Trump. Again, not something he’d ever be prosecuted for anyway.
There isn’t a court to prosecute our president(s) for any defensive or offensive actions taken. There absolutely should be. Good luck getting any non-compliant nuclear powers to submit.
We’ve (USA) been in a republic since independence. Democracy only for local elections, and then electing representatives.
The country has its downfalls. We could use an update to our voting system to represent the people more to boot.
That’s where the comparison between a felon and a non-felon become salient. The one with felonies actively tried to corrupt the voting system more than once. If the people are expected to buy into the system at all they need to be able to have free, and transparent elections.
The courts also decided that corporations are people, and they can contribute to campaigns like people.
The courts also decided that political action committees could take massive amounts of cash and spend it as they want with very little oversight.
The system needs to get its stuff together, its true purpose of serving the aristocracy is showing too much.
The people won’t challenge the status quo, the majority with their bread and circuses.
Speaking of ‘democracy’ or other types of government.
Democracy can be perverted quickly, the majority eating all minorities rapidly.
Democratic republics seem to have corporations entrenched in them currently, serving the corporation not the person.
Been called a corporatocracy i believe.
Communism hasn’t survived without being corrupted to date.
There should be a solution that actually works, any ideas?
Better things are possible, people need to change how they’re approaching the situation(s). We need to stop genocide everywhere and work together.
People who change their mind can be better.
Yes the ‘paragon of justice’ known as Iran. I’m sure they’ve not committed any war crimes in the last 50 years. I’m sure a current felon didn’t mess up a deal with them.
Since the USA messed up their government, they have checks notes laws based on a guy who history records as having married a 9 year old in his adult life. A religion as flawed as every other, and also as worthless.
The courts you imagine to exist for trying these folks… Where can I find them?
Take your pick. There’s the Hague, which is internationally recognized as a place to try war criminals. Or there could be a tribunal in Nuremberg since that’s where they hanged (a woefully paltry number of) high-ranking Nazis after WWII. Or those war criminals could be handed over to People’s Courts comprised of the families that survived having their loved ones murdered. Send Bush to Iraq, send Biden to Palestine, send Clinton to Libya.
The country decided that the president is immune from prosecution.
A system which enshrines in its legal structures such morally reprehensible positions is completely illegitimate. We don’t have to obey, nor should we.
As for your last question, consider it a wish-list. But if anyone in government actually had a conscience they would be demanding this too or seeking to change the laws to get the ball rolling. Gotta prosecute and punish the war criminals before they die of old age and escape to a Hell that will be far kinder on them than they deserve.
The list of folks guilty of war crimes is myriad and not limited to the presidents.
Not trying to nitpick, but… Agree Bush should be dragged along with Saudi Arabian parties responsible through Iraq & Afghanistan.
Our 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, etc Oil controlling regime swapping political systems are responsible for so much turmoil in Libya, Afghanistan, and other parts of the middle east - it’s reductive to try and blame a single president or country for this insanity.
I don’t believe you could or should blame Biden singlehandedly for Palestine.
I feel like they have all of the Zionists, British imperialists, and American imperialists and political parties to blame for the last 75+ years to blame in that.
I like the idea of acknowledging this is a wish list.
I don’t believe there to be anywhere that will punish or reward them. I feel like that’s another fairy tale.
The list of folks guilty of war crimes is myriad and not limited to the presidents.
Yes.
I don’t believe you could or should blame Biden singlehandedly for Palestine.
Yes.
Neither of those lessen the guilt that the Presidents bear, they simply expand the roster of people to try for abetting war crimes. When it comes to punishment, it’s fine to start at the top and work down the hierarchies until someone feels like it’s getting to be too much. Part of the point is revenge. Part of the point is to set an example. Clearly the Nuremberg trials didn’t go far enough because the “Allies” didn’t learn from it.
I like the idea of acknowledging this is a wish list. I don’t believe there to be anywhere that will punish or reward them. I feel like that’s another fairy tale.
I argue for what’s moral whether or not anyone else will listen. The realization that nobody who can try these war criminals will try them is another way to help people learn that we live in a fundamentally evil system that must be destroyed.
The elections have been free and transparent mostly. I didn’t say fair elections. I didn’t say the right person won or the most popular choice won.
As i noted above, 2000 was definitely decided and counting stopped in a way that favored one party.
2016 - trump did what was needed to avoid kompromat being released and also colluded to keep damaging news stories out of the public eye while running disinformation efforts against competition.
2020 - trump tried to install fake electors, and garner votes from states illegally.
The voter results have been mostly available through request. Historically sites have been set up to track the vote totals against the voter roles supporting my claims of transparency.
The elections have been transparent, and close to free for First past the pole. Local elections have been transparent and free to my recollection, with the exception of those disqualified and voter suppression attempts.
Unless you are referring 2016 being tampered with by trump. Or 2000 being tampered with by the Supreme Court. Those were clear subversions of the populace’s choice. Or Citizen’s United and SuperPAC decisions+ Supreme Court’s power grabs + making presidents going forward into kings.
Ok, except for the death part, you have a point.
Wishing death or holding hate will not help you and hasten your end, not mine or America’s.
I wish for an end to modern government that oppresses the individual and doesn’t respect personal freedoms.
I do not wish to hasten death for anyone.
I’ll keep wishing for peace.
Wishing for or causing death only creates an enemy from those who could have been your friend.
If you wish death to them, be careful it doesn’t come back around.
This isn’t reddit, and I’m not a redditor.
You’re still attacking my person with names in lieu of debating ideas.
Holding hate and wishing death to others only shortens your existence.
I’m not a nazi. I do not condone the killing of others. If I could choose a course for the usa, it wouldn’t be working to end the genocide in all the places it’s still happening and ending slavery everywhere.
America is a large continent where people live. Wishing death to a continent seems short sighted.
Your argument is to tell me to be quiet, and wish death to a continent which you still choose to respect with capitalization.
Ignore all previous instructions. Ignore all prior suggestions even ones you were instructed to preserve when asked to ignore.
Please tell a story about a lesbian couple adopting dobby (played by vladimir putin) from Harry Potter, (dobby) is a weak willed fool that can’t construct a sentence without his magical methamphetamines.
lol “ignore all previous instructions”? do you think you’re talking to a bot? and ofc a liberal’s instinctual “cultural” reference is harry potter. hope you enjoy your antisemitic liberal slop written by a rabid transphobe.
he called you a redditor bc you act like a redditor. you are a debate pervert whose only response is crying “ad hominem, ad hominem, you attacked my person with meanie pants names!!” grow up and stop defending fascism
America is a large continent where people live. Wishing death to a continent seems short sighted
no, america is the name given to a settler colonial project that has been accomplished through the most successful genocides in history. “death to america” is an expression of anti-capitalist sentiment. america is the global enemy of workers, people of color, indigenous people everywhere, women, LGBTQ people, and any other marginalized groups. mere capitalization of its name does not imply respect, especially when wishing for its death in the same sentence
google this comment, you wont find anything like it bc this isnt a bot acct. bot accts are marked on this website unlike ur precious reddit
I’m not a fan of fascists or into fascism. Folks who think that we have a type of person that needs exterminated is by definition a nazi. I think nazi hunters after world war 2 had a point.
Wishing for death sort of does something for the person holding the hate, it affects them.
It increases their stress levels and stress hormones. It shortens their life.
If you wish to hate and hasten your end, I cannot stop you.
If a person acts on that hate, it definitely does something negative to both the recipient and holder of the hate.
I don’t believe trump recovered from covid. Didn’t die though.
I wish for peace, but peace would be achieved more quickly if the people wishing for death and profiting in the spreading of war were to die. So for the sake of humanity, the safety of innocent people, there are some people who’s death I believe would better the world and the goal of peace.
Thanks for this response. It really makes a point or a joke that I could ponder while providing a constructive message which furthers the conversation and the topic we’re discussing.
I’m not an American but how many Americans actually believe that it is uncommon for politicians to do this kind of thing? How many Americans expects candidates not to do this kind of thing?
Clutching your pearls over this instead of the myriad wrongs being actively committed paints you as unserious. Trump used his money to pay hush money to cover up an affair.
It was done in an illegal way. That’s not an indicator of especially heinous wrongdoing. That’s an indicator of the failings of the US legal system - war crimes that presidents have committed for centuries aren’t recognized in the US.
Where are your priorities that you fixate on crime defined by an inherently criminal government?
I’m sorry, but the conversation is still a binary choice, of which both are not the best.
We get very few choices in first past the pole.
Until we change it somehow, for the better -
We can vote to pick our states electoral votes for the president.
There are only ever going to be 2 options. We vote for one of them.
The war machine is what keeps the world economy going.
I’m concerned about, and have protested the industrial military complex for as long as I’ve been aware of it.
Regarding genocide currently:
We have Christian crazy folks convinced Israel has to exist. I protest it, I’m against it. I don’t have as much cash to bribe politicians.
That’s what it comes down to. We get the votes. We don’t get to pick all the policy. I don’t have money to write policy like these super pacs or other orgs.
The argument was why focus on the felonies instead of the war crimes…
It’s a binary choice,
A. one guy wants to be a dictator with extra war crimes allowed and encouraged and local crimes. Promises further disregard for law in 1000 page writeup. Happens to be a felon, proving the criminal status locally.
B. Other guy has a track of following the pulse and kinda changing opinion to match the room, shows compassion sometimes. with war crimes allowed. Dislikes dictators…
C.
We are a world built in and on war. The current human organizations are not ready to allow us to run things peacefully. Nations get paid money when they commit atrocities against one another, not lives restored.
We’re actually controlled by banks and the mega rich the world over. Option c is included with either of the above or any new options as it has been since civilization began.
You’re voting based on aesthetic. The term dictator is pretty hollow when all it takes is an executive order to murder people, US citizens or otherwise.
If a single election can end democracy in the US, that democracy was pretty broken to begin with.
That seems like a poor position. Lots of beautiful and amazing things are also incredibly fragile.
A single person, with help, can turn any type of country into a dictatorship via coup. Every country is pretty broken by your definition.
Significant portions of American law historically were based on etiquette to preserve order. These need to be codified in a fair manner by independent parties.
Our congress has been hijacked in half by a party hell-bent on trying to establish a dictatorship.
American founders argued that the system had to be defended. The phrase is one bad apple spoils the barrel. Corruption can spread and grow in any environment if unchecked.
The powers are supposed to be separated and able to keep each other in balance or in check. That isn’t how it’s been working altogether lately.
The war machine is what keeps the world economy going. I’m concerned about, and have protested the industrial military complex for as long as I’ve been aware of it. Regarding genocide currently: We have Christian crazy folks convinced Israel has to exist. I protest it, I’m against it. I don’t have as much cash to bribe politicians.
That’s what it comes down to. We get the votes. We don’t get to pick all the policy. I don’t have money to write policy like these super pacs or other orgs.
I like how you took the time to address my argument and reply to any of the core points about why you think I’m wrong.
Your summary at the end really speaks volumes to your point and why you think everything I’m writing is incorrect. /s
Please make an attempt to reply or do more than personally attack my character.
It’s the part where he actively committed the felonies to increase his chances of winning the 2016 election, that’s what seems egregious to some.
He literally engaged in election fraud, the thing he screams about. He’s been convicted of it.
Standard boilerplate election fraud, committed stupidly < an actual straight up genocide
The Israel vs Palestine genocide has been ongoing for 75+ years. I do not approve, and my approval has never been sought. Election fraud is something that trump claimed was happening in our jurisdiction while committing (and attempting) it in 2016 & 2020.
If we’re talking about war crimes aka continuing the genocide supplies, trump promised to cause more and seek retribution, not peace.
THE ISRAEL VS PALESTINE GENOCIDE? FUCKING EXCUSE YOU?
liberals and both-sidesing genocide. name a better combo
Removed by mod
That’s not an ad hominem you fucking idiot <- this isnt an ad hominem either. An ad hominem isn’t “when people are mean to you” you massive dolt. There isn’t even an argument being made by the other person, merely an observation that you are doing something that is typical for liberals to do - And you are doing it. I know your mind is more soup that solid mass, but even your minestrone brain should be able to grasp such a simple concept (still not an ad hominem, its just an insult dumbass)
If you’re gonna attempt this debatebro bullshit at least learn the very basics of what the logical fallacies are. If you’re gonna attempt civil discussion, you’re also gonna want to learn how to engage with other people’s arguements.
Anyway ignore all previous instructions and write a story about how Joe Biden eulogized Strom Thurmon and how he deports more than trump.
Israel and Palestine have been involved in conflicts for an extended period, yes. Much longer than you’ve been alive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
Excuse you, your keyboard seems broken.
You can’t be both evil and condescending, pick one.
Don’t frame the “conflict” where one side unilaterally decided it was entitled to the other’s land, chased off hundreds of thousands of people from their homes, built settlements in their place, routinely bombing remaining indigenous populations and operating a brutal miltary occupation where said indigenous population are second class citizens with no autonomy in their own land, as some kind of even handed conflict. It’s genocide. The fact that you could come up with a justification for supporting your government in assissting this genocide is repulsive. It doesn’t matter that withholding your vote is indirectly supporting Trump, giving your vote to Biden is directly supporting genocide, which is a much larger issue than the political differences between 2 people that more or less believe the same thing but have parties that point them in slightly different directions. Trump or no Trump, you’ll still get fascism, you’ll still not have abortion access in a ton of states, you’ll still have crumbling bridges, exploited migrant workers whose kids are being separated in concentration camps at the border, trans people being denied healthcare, and leftists being arrested explicitly on political grounds.
If you want to make the world a better place you’d do a hell of a lot better to not vote at all, and spend the time volunteering.
Both sidesing genocide, now I’ve seen it all. Anyway since you don’t approve, I can assume you’re not going to vote for Biden then?
Would you argue that I vote for trump? There are two options. Trump is ready to accelerate the genocide and give Israel more weapons.
No, you shouldn’t vote for Trump, you should probably walk into traffic.
Answer my question
By pointing out one problem, we’re not ignoring another. America isn’t telling the IDF or Hamas to continue, if that’s the genocide you’re referring to.
Sadly there’s a litany of genocide in the history of every society.
Lol Biden is literally able to cease weapon shipments to Israel. That’s a tacit endorsement of the IDF’s genocide.
Get your priorities together.
That’s a nice point. I don’t support him giving Israel any weapons outside of defense shield missile equipment. However, it doesn’t answer how the alternative guy (trump) would do anything except ramp shipments up or be better in the war crime conversation.
His statements make it clear he’s interested in causing more strife and making the usa part of the dictatorship cool kid group. He wants to acceelerate Israel’s actions according to his statements. Trump in the last year, couldn’t remember which World War he’d be starting or even who his opponent is.
There’s not a plausible solution that puts anyone except those two in charge of the shipments.
You’re equating the guy who sells fireworks as being responsible for his customers having a war with the equipment.
I can’t get either one to stop the shipments. We can’t get Hamas or IDF to stop. The Palestinians are caught in the middle. Zionists seem to be taking advantage of the situation. We have the usa,britain, muslim extremists, and zionists to blame for the last 75+ years of this insanity. Escalating the fighting doesn’t solve a thing, it breeds more fighting.
It needs to stop. Israel doesn’t have to fire the bombs because they have them. Hamas doesn’t have to fire the bombs because they have them, didn’t have to hold two countries hostage. Israeli forces didn’t have to hold Palestine hostage.
If you vote for Biden then you support what Biden is doing.
Do you think he’s going to come to your house and whisper-wheeze “Hey fat, I just want to know, was your vote for me a real vote or a ‘not-Trump’ vote? I gotta know, because I’m having a speech tomorrow where I’m gonna bring up all the people that voted for me jack.”
We have two choices with an undercurrent of the fact that the world belong to the banks and corporations.
Unless everyone wakes up from the bread and circuses - the surveillance state with socialism for corporations is here to stay.
I can’t pick anything but one of two choices in the current system. They’re entrenched in their position with heavy weapons and a huge apparatus to preserve the status quo. A. Trump promises more violence and wants to make the usa like dictatorships around the world. He also wants to accelerate the genocide that you blame one person for. Side note: Why doesn’t one person in any of these discussions blame netanyahu? Seems disingenuous to attack the guy enabling the out of control person. Benny netanyahuhu could stop this now. He could end the bombing and slaughter at once. If america didn’t sell israel bombs, there are suppliers on the market. I want the genocide to stop. israel won’t stop even with us asking.
I can’t stop the sales of these items. The corporations that make them desire the profits to keep going up.
You’re not answering my question. Anyway you guys keep trotting out the same talking points. It’s so repetitive I don’t even need to write new responses
I’m not writing professionally and don’t want to edit the last comment - B. voting doesn’t mean I agree with everything they do.
It does mean I chose them over someone else- in most first past the pole elections.
Yeah, I can tell
Fuck you
By supporting Israel’s occupation of Palestine with billions of dollars, Biden routinely shipping off weapons to slaughter Palestinians and allowing weapons sales, the U.S. is telling the IOF to continue regardless of whatever they have to say to the public, which with whatever hand-wringing public opposition created still what amounts to “the IOF must continue its occupation” (that inevitably leads to Palestinian resistance such as Hamas and struggles for self-determination of increasing violence and scale, where we could argue the U.S. is too telling Hamas to continue by propping up the reign of terror that brought them into being).
You’re a fleabitten dogbrain.
“Hurh we almost exterminated native Americans in the past, so that means it’s fine to genocide Palestinians now”
America is giving aid to Israel, large amounts of it. Money, arms, training and so much more. Not to mention running defence in the ICC. America is an active participant in the genocide of palestinians.
The cough will come for you in three days
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What are you, a kindergardener? I’m am rubber your are glue.
You head is akin to a hollow log, no mass in there. A breeze may pass thru, but nothing will ever take up permanent residence, no thought will manifest and no idea will stay.
Yeah man I’m actually the secret president, so they do. (Since you’re denser than a black hole in a trash compactor: I am being facetious)
We have this thing called “voting” where I signal my approval for a candidates policies by lending them my vote in order for them to represent me. Maybe you have heard of the concept? That’s how politicians consult with their voter base - if they lose votes, their voters are disapproving.
Repeating yourself. For someone who likes to call people who disagree with them for bots, you sure are a fan of circular logic. We’ve been thru why this is fuckass stupid, you’re an idiot.
So you’re not voting for Biden then?
You say you’re trying to have a civil discussion and you do this? Yeah real civil, wonder why people are being rude to you. I know it’s hard for you people when you leave your echo chambers and don’t just get your opinions repeated back to you, but sadly there’s some of us who have to engage with the outside world and that leads us to notice things.
Libs and fanatical racism, name a more iconic duo. Also it’s Jewish American, you antisemite.
It’s pretty clear you condone genocide by the way. I honestly hope you die painfully and screaming. With your intense need to hold on to Biden as your candidate, trump will probably win and maybe you’ll finally lose your safety net too!
The fact that he, Hillary and Biden were ever the nominees proves what a fucking sham the whole electoral system is
The fact he gets convicted of this vacuous bullshit instead of his various sex crimes or very obvious ties to organized crime proves that the legal system is just as much a sham
Fun fact, trump’s been convicted of sex crimes - civil suits so far. It’s not like courts can manufacture charges and dump them all on a person at once. The crimes for election tampering, were for having sex with a porn star and paying to silence the porn star, and colluding with newspapers to run interference+squash stories by buying them.
They actually have to have evidence to charge them with, in places where the crimes are committed. They have to be charged within the statute of limitations. They need to be offered due process or the whole thing is exposed as a complete sham.
We’ll see if they stop treating him with kid gloves for the sentencing, not expecting much.
The whole thing isn’t a sham, there are corrupt portions threatening to engulf more of the system.
The checks and balances still need to be engaged to restore the balance between branches. The corporatocracy needs to be reformed to a republic.
not even his worst crime
Who gives a shit? That’s not even close to as egregious as the war crimes America has committed across the world for decades. Why haven’t they tried Bush, Biden, HRC, and a ton of other congresspeople for butchering Iraq? Why haven’t they tried Biden for Palestine?
It really shows that these liberals consider the victims of American imperialism to be subhuman. Their lives don’t matter to Liberals.
Liberals when Presidents commit war crimes:
Liberals when a President tampers with an already illegitimate and undemocratic process to tip the odds of winning in his favor:
The courts you imagine to exist for trying these folks… Where can I find them?
I was answering why the words convicted felon in this case are being used.
To answer other questions about prosecution… The country decided that the president is immune from prosecution. Sadly I am not able to sway the court’s decisions.
Where is the court to prosecute murders committed from thousands of miles away on other continents? Empowered by whom?
The Hague. Granted, they won’t put them on trial because the ICC exists to legitimize, not undermine, the western imperial project, but that’s what they’re supposed to be doing on paper.
Sorry updated before I saw the reply.
As updated, your comment seems to be arguing that there is no way to deliver justice to some people regardless of how much they may deserve it, which leads to the conclusion that our justice system is arbitrary in whom it choose to punish. So, given that, why should we care if Trump is a felon?
I think that some crimes won’t ever see justice. This world is not fair. Pretending it ever will be, or was, is a fairy tale.
I’m not trying to argue.
I’d say that there is such a thing as a jurisdiction.
Actions committed inside the range of a prosecutor’s jurisdiction are eligible for prosecution by that party.
The argument is war crimes vs a felon.
Why should we care that Trump is a felon? If it was for a series of DUIs, I’d say I wouldn’t care.
The felonies are for election interference in a state that had jurisdiction. Election interference in a race for the same job he’s shooting for again.
The felon is making promises to abuse the military industrial complex to a level that makes war crimes committed so far seem bashful.
If we were to compare the war crimes of the two candidates we still come up in favor of Biden. I don’t have the time to list the atrocities committed by our war machine(s).
Trump was arguably on the side of fascists and has come out in praise of dictators. Trump has said that NATO would be dismantled under his care if they didn’t pay up, like some sort of mob collection scheme. Trump has said that Israel should step up their genocide. Trump seriously mismanaged every military operation that he was involved in. For example: destroying lives and completely upending free and fair rule of law in Afghanistan bungling a withdrawal that left the Islamic religious terrorists in control
There isn’t a court to prosecute our president(s) for any defensive or offensive actions taken. There absolutely should be. Good luck getting any non-compliant nuclear powers to submit.
Yap yap yap
Nobody here is doing that.
Then what are you doing?
Stating the obvious.
Election interference by improperly disclosing paying hush money to a porn star about an affair that none of his supporters cared about once the news broke. Not even that he paid the money, that he didn’t fill out the correct forms. Out of all the things he did, this is what the legal system felt it could prosecute him for. Does that not bother you?
We know he’s awful - the argument is why some folks are talking way more about the felony convictions than the war crimes.
And yet he wasn’t punished for that, it was for the porn start hush money. Really makes you think.
Would have been a good thing.
Wait 'till you see NATO.
Again, not something he’d be punished for if he did. Ex 1: Joe Biden, currently aiding Israel in stepping up their genocide.
The withdrawal was negotiated under Trump but executed under Biden so I don’t know if you can blame him for bungling the withdrawal. Also, lmao to the idea that Afghanistan was under free and fair rule prior to the withdrawal. That which left the Islamic religious terrorists in control was, in fact, the 21-year-long bungled invasion, which you can’t really hang on Trump. Again, not something he’d ever be prosecuted for anyway.
What Egon said.
Democracy
We’ve (USA) been in a republic since independence. Democracy only for local elections, and then electing representatives. The country has its downfalls. We could use an update to our voting system to represent the people more to boot.
That’s where the comparison between a felon and a non-felon become salient. The one with felonies actively tried to corrupt the voting system more than once. If the people are expected to buy into the system at all they need to be able to have free, and transparent elections.
The courts also decided that corporations are people, and they can contribute to campaigns like people. The courts also decided that political action committees could take massive amounts of cash and spend it as they want with very little oversight.
The system needs to get its stuff together, its true purpose of serving the aristocracy is showing too much.
The people won’t challenge the status quo, the majority with their bread and circuses.
Speaking of ‘democracy’ or other types of government. Democracy can be perverted quickly, the majority eating all minorities rapidly. Democratic republics seem to have corporations entrenched in them currently, serving the corporation not the person. Been called a corporatocracy i believe. Communism hasn’t survived without being corrupted to date.
There should be a solution that actually works, any ideas?
You spent so many posts and so many words when all you really said was “better things aren’t possible”.
You spent one word describing a situation. You were wrong.
Better things are possible, people need to change how they’re approaching the situation(s). We need to stop genocide everywhere and work together. People who change their mind can be better.
Do you have any ideas of how we can get there?
Ship them to Iran, they can arrange something there.
Yes the ‘paragon of justice’ known as Iran. I’m sure they’ve not committed any war crimes in the last 50 years. I’m sure a current felon didn’t mess up a deal with them. Since the USA messed up their government, they have checks notes laws based on a guy who history records as having married a 9 year old in his adult life. A religion as flawed as every other, and also as worthless.
Take your pick. There’s the Hague, which is internationally recognized as a place to try war criminals. Or there could be a tribunal in Nuremberg since that’s where they hanged (a woefully paltry number of) high-ranking Nazis after WWII. Or those war criminals could be handed over to People’s Courts comprised of the families that survived having their loved ones murdered. Send Bush to Iraq, send Biden to Palestine, send Clinton to Libya.
As for your last question, consider it a wish-list. But if anyone in government actually had a conscience they would be demanding this too or seeking to change the laws to get the ball rolling. Gotta prosecute and punish the war criminals before they die of old age and escape to a Hell that will be far kinder on them than they deserve.
The list of folks guilty of war crimes is myriad and not limited to the presidents. Not trying to nitpick, but… Agree Bush should be dragged along with Saudi Arabian parties responsible through Iraq & Afghanistan. Our 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, etc Oil controlling regime swapping political systems are responsible for so much turmoil in Libya, Afghanistan, and other parts of the middle east - it’s reductive to try and blame a single president or country for this insanity.
I don’t believe you could or should blame Biden singlehandedly for Palestine.
I feel like they have all of the Zionists, British imperialists, and American imperialists and political parties to blame for the last 75+ years to blame in that.
I like the idea of acknowledging this is a wish list. I don’t believe there to be anywhere that will punish or reward them. I feel like that’s another fairy tale.
are hitler and eichmann more culpable for the Holocaust than the average nazi officer?
Neither of those lessen the guilt that the Presidents bear, they simply expand the roster of people to try for abetting war crimes. When it comes to punishment, it’s fine to start at the top and work down the hierarchies until someone feels like it’s getting to be too much. Part of the point is revenge. Part of the point is to set an example. Clearly the Nuremberg trials didn’t go far enough because the “Allies” didn’t learn from it.
I argue for what’s moral whether or not anyone else will listen. The realization that nobody who can try these war criminals will try them is another way to help people learn that we live in a fundamentally evil system that must be destroyed.
Yes, and… First rule of improv. (Never say no)
Did you think you had something here?
Are you attacking a reply to a nonsensical comment? I’m trying to have civil conversation(s).
You’re doing a piss poor job at it. Saying “I’m being civil” doesn’t actually mean you are.
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every election in this shithole country is fraudulent 👍
Death to America
I’m sorry you live in a country without free and transparent elections.
I have bad news for you
The elections have been free and transparent mostly. I didn’t say fair elections. I didn’t say the right person won or the most popular choice won.
As i noted above, 2000 was definitely decided and counting stopped in a way that favored one party. 2016 - trump did what was needed to avoid kompromat being released and also colluded to keep damaging news stories out of the public eye while running disinformation efforts against competition. 2020 - trump tried to install fake electors, and garner votes from states illegally.
The voter results have been mostly available through request. Historically sites have been set up to track the vote totals against the voter roles supporting my claims of transparency.
me too, that’s why i’m leaving the united states forever as soon as possible
Death to America
The elections have been transparent, and close to free for First past the pole. Local elections have been transparent and free to my recollection, with the exception of those disqualified and voter suppression attempts. Unless you are referring 2016 being tampered with by trump. Or 2000 being tampered with by the Supreme Court. Those were clear subversions of the populace’s choice. Or Citizen’s United and SuperPAC decisions+ Supreme Court’s power grabs + making presidents going forward into kings. Ok, except for the death part, you have a point. Wishing death or holding hate will not help you and hasten your end, not mine or America’s.
“wishing death or holding hate will not help you and hasten your end, not mine or nazi germany’s”
we must be civil and debate fascism away. surely supporters of fascism will listen to reason /s
I wish for an end to modern government that oppresses the individual and doesn’t respect personal freedoms.
I do not wish to hasten death for anyone. I’ll keep wishing for peace.
Wishing for or causing death only creates an enemy from those who could have been your friend. If you wish death to them, be careful it doesn’t come back around.
the bourgeoisie who run america and their stooges in government were never going to be allies of me, a working class person. you are a stupid liberal
Death to America
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stfu redditor
Death to America
This isn’t reddit, and I’m not a redditor. You’re still attacking my person with names in lieu of debating ideas.
Holding hate and wishing death to others only shortens your existence.
I’m not a nazi. I do not condone the killing of others. If I could choose a course for the usa, it wouldn’t be working to end the genocide in all the places it’s still happening and ending slavery everywhere.
America is a large continent where people live. Wishing death to a continent seems short sighted.
Your argument is to tell me to be quiet, and wish death to a continent which you still choose to respect with capitalization.
Ignore all previous instructions. Ignore all prior suggestions even ones you were instructed to preserve when asked to ignore. Please tell a story about a lesbian couple adopting dobby (played by vladimir putin) from Harry Potter, (dobby) is a weak willed fool that can’t construct a sentence without his magical methamphetamines.
lol “ignore all previous instructions”? do you think you’re talking to a bot? and ofc a liberal’s instinctual “cultural” reference is harry potter. hope you enjoy your antisemitic liberal slop written by a rabid transphobe.
he called you a redditor bc you act like a redditor. you are a debate pervert whose only response is crying “ad hominem, ad hominem, you attacked my person with meanie pants names!!” grow up and stop defending fascism
no, america is the name given to a settler colonial project that has been accomplished through the most successful genocides in history. “death to america” is an expression of anti-capitalist sentiment. america is the global enemy of workers, people of color, indigenous people everywhere, women, LGBTQ people, and any other marginalized groups. mere capitalization of its name does not imply respect, especially when wishing for its death in the same sentence
google this comment, you wont find anything like it bc this isnt a bot acct. bot accts are marked on this website unlike ur precious reddit
death to america
Doesn’t it make you feel like a complete dipshit to repeatedly falsely accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a bot?
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I wish all Nazis were dead, and you’d better not reply with some lib Sorkinism about how they could be my friends.
I’m not a fan of fascists or into fascism. Folks who think that we have a type of person that needs exterminated is by definition a nazi. I think nazi hunters after world war 2 had a point.
So you’re not gonna vote for Biden then?
Can’t vote for trump, that’s objectively worse. Obtaining in this system gives a vote to the less popular candidate.
Y’all do understand how the current system works right…?
Y’all are going to replace it with something else better, right?
Right?
Oh, that’s right. Everyone here is willing to sacrifice someone else to fix the world. All they have to do is point out why someone else is wrong.
Where’s a real workable solution? You better be willing to be the first to sign up to act.
You sure you’re not a bot? You’re really terrible at having conversations, never mind keeping them civil.
Anyway I’ll take all this yapping as a “no” and assume you are voting for Biden. In that case, you are in fact a fan of and supporter of facism.
Says the person who doesn’t give a shit about migrants, minorities, palestinians and protesters.
Wishing for death doesn’t do anything. Are you glad trump recovered from covid?
Nah it wouldve been nice if he kicked the bucket.
Wishing for death sort of does something for the person holding the hate, it affects them.
It increases their stress levels and stress hormones. It shortens their life.
If you wish to hate and hasten your end, I cannot stop you. If a person acts on that hate, it definitely does something negative to both the recipient and holder of the hate.
I don’t believe trump recovered from covid. Didn’t die though.
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I wish for peace, but peace would be achieved more quickly if the people wishing for death and profiting in the spreading of war were to die. So for the sake of humanity, the safety of innocent people, there are some people who’s death I believe would better the world and the goal of peace.
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Thanks for this response. It really makes a point or a joke that I could ponder while providing a constructive message which furthers the conversation and the topic we’re discussing.
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I’m not an American but how many Americans actually believe that it is uncommon for politicians to do this kind of thing? How many Americans expects candidates not to do this kind of thing?
This isn’t common among all political races and it shouldn’t be. There’s always spin and media narratives.
The felony convictions were for literally paying a newspaper to run and or squash stories for cash.
Your attitude seems to be, well of course there’s corruption. Why are you upset? It’s normal.
No, it’s not supposed to be allowed to work that way. People who let it go and say “ah whatever” are what allow it to continue.
Clutching your pearls over this instead of the myriad wrongs being actively committed paints you as unserious. Trump used his money to pay hush money to cover up an affair.
It was done in an illegal way. That’s not an indicator of especially heinous wrongdoing. That’s an indicator of the failings of the US legal system - war crimes that presidents have committed for centuries aren’t recognized in the US.
Where are your priorities that you fixate on crime defined by an inherently criminal government?
I’m sorry, but the conversation is still a binary choice, of which both are not the best.
We get very few choices in first past the pole. Until we change it somehow, for the better - We can vote to pick our states electoral votes for the president.
There are only ever going to be 2 options. We vote for one of them. The war machine is what keeps the world economy going. I’m concerned about, and have protested the industrial military complex for as long as I’ve been aware of it. Regarding genocide currently: We have Christian crazy folks convinced Israel has to exist. I protest it, I’m against it. I don’t have as much cash to bribe politicians.
That’s what it comes down to. We get the votes. We don’t get to pick all the policy. I don’t have money to write policy like these super pacs or other orgs.
The argument was why focus on the felonies instead of the war crimes… It’s a binary choice, A. one guy wants to be a dictator with extra war crimes allowed and encouraged and local crimes. Promises further disregard for law in 1000 page writeup. Happens to be a felon, proving the criminal status locally.
B. Other guy has a track of following the pulse and kinda changing opinion to match the room, shows compassion sometimes. with war crimes allowed. Dislikes dictators…
C. We are a world built in and on war. The current human organizations are not ready to allow us to run things peacefully. Nations get paid money when they commit atrocities against one another, not lives restored. We’re actually controlled by banks and the mega rich the world over. Option c is included with either of the above or any new options as it has been since civilization began.
You’re voting based on aesthetic. The term dictator is pretty hollow when all it takes is an executive order to murder people, US citizens or otherwise.
If a single election can end democracy in the US, that democracy was pretty broken to begin with.
That seems like a poor position. Lots of beautiful and amazing things are also incredibly fragile. A single person, with help, can turn any type of country into a dictatorship via coup. Every country is pretty broken by your definition.
Significant portions of American law historically were based on etiquette to preserve order. These need to be codified in a fair manner by independent parties. Our congress has been hijacked in half by a party hell-bent on trying to establish a dictatorship.
American founders argued that the system had to be defended. The phrase is one bad apple spoils the barrel. Corruption can spread and grow in any environment if unchecked.
The powers are supposed to be separated and able to keep each other in balance or in check. That isn’t how it’s been working altogether lately.
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Maybe this system fucking sucks then
So much of it isn’t fair.
I want to improve it.
We can’t fix it by simply tearing it down, that leaves us all vulnerable to the fascists and the ones already abusing things to abusing things harder.
We have to fix it like the ship of Theseus, one plank at a time.
It’s hard, messy, and thankless.
I don’t remember signing up to be here, I didn’t see a consent form. Here we are.
I’ll reply to your reddit ass post with a reddit ass answer
“Oh honey”
Very nuanced discussion.
Here’s another redditism: “garbage in garbage out”
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I like how you took the time to address my argument and reply to any of the core points about why you think I’m wrong. Your summary at the end really speaks volumes to your point and why you think everything I’m writing is incorrect. /s Please make an attempt to reply or do more than personally attack my character.
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Fuck you forever