Literally my ex, any the typical reactions, where somehow I’m to blame for her insanity, because men are all bad and women are always right.
Ironically, she was cheating. Its always projection with the psychopaths.
My wife once hit me in front of my kids because she didn’t like my pointing out a double standard in how she was treating them. The one she was favoring recently started hitting the other one in a similar manner–basically just to silence her when she said something he didn’t like–and when I pointed out the similarity to my wife’s actions and suggested he had learned it from her she got mad and claimed that rather than hitting me she had “hit my hand away” which is a lie and she knows it. It is 100% classic spousal abuse and gaslighting, and yet due to the sheer size difference between us–I’m a foot taller–I feel ridiculous calling it that, and don’t want to find out what else my son learns is OK from his mom if I’m not around, so here I am still married to her, mostly trying to forget the abuse when it’s not actively happening. She’s been abusive, but I’m not really in any physical danger, so staying seems like the rational option in my situation… I imagine that’s relatively common among men.
Hey man, I don’t know your situation and all the details, but it’s not at all ridiculous to call it spousal abuse or gaslighting. That’s fucking dark, and that your son is picking up on it is darker. Your other kid likely isn’t blind to it either, especially since she’s started receiving that sort of treatment and being treated as the scapegoat. That sort of situation leaves deep scars on both spouse (you) and children. You don’t have to be in physical danger (though abuse often escalates) to be in danger. Damage from abuse lasts a lifetime.
I am a 6’6’‘, 280lbs man and my ex-wife was a 4’7’’ 97lbs woman. She would hit me and psychologically abuse me a lot, and nobody would give a shit because “how can she hurt you? You’re such a big guy!”
She would use weapons, you bastards! She would hit me while I was asleep! She would hit me in the nuts! And even if it didn’t always physically hurt, it definitely hurt in other ways. Fuck off with that mentality.
Al…right. Let’s do a little sanity check and let’s see how up or downvoted is gets.
- It is absolutely true that violence against women is structurally endemic in our societies and they represent a large majority of domestic violence
- It is also absolutely true that domestic violence against men is clearly under-reported, to an unknown but significant extant
- It is absolutely true that abuse is abuse
Those assertions do not contradict each other.
1 is questionable, in part because of the claim that we don’t know how under reported it is in 2. But also because there have been studies going back to the 70s suggesting that most violent relationships involve mutual violence, and the ones that don’t aren’t a large majority of men abusing women. For example, the woman who founded the first women’s refuge in the UK had written that many of the women entering her shelter were as violent as the men they were leaving, giving a number a number that was pretty close to numbers Strauss, Gelles and Steinmetz came up with from their research in the 70
Those studies get questioned or minimized not because they have particularly bad issues with how they are done, but because the field is essentially subject to ideological capture and research that contradicts the goals of the activism at the time is worked against.
There’s also some playing with terms and definitions that works against men in this kind of thing. To use a trans example, all women in the UK who rape are trans - this isn’t because trans women are particularly likely to rape, but because rape is defined in the UK as requiring the perpetrator to penetrate the victim with the perpetrator’s penis, which means cis women are incapable of “rape”, but if you’re a TERF and need something to support your point… For an example regarding men, Mary Koss (a prominent sexual assault researcher, enough so that you almost can’t talk about the topic in the US without touching something descended from her work) was asked a question about men being raped by women about a decade ago in an interview. She responded with incredulity, asked how would that even happen, and when given an example who had been drugged into compliance was told by Koss that that wasn’t rape, but “unwanted contact” and in other places she’s made a point about the importance of keeping rape a word for female victims because men just don’t feel hurt or shame in the same way.
Or NISVS where you see a couple of interesting things. One is playing with definitions where if a man copulates with a woman against her will it’s “rape” but if a woman copulates with a man against his will it’s “made to penetrate”, with the latter being a subcategory of “Other” so as to obscure any kind of direct comparisons between them or that the two are as similar as they are. You also have this clearly demonstrated phenomenon that they seem to actively avoid discussing where previous year rape numbers are pretty similar (if you consider being “made to penetrate” equivalent to “rape”) but in lifetime numbers men’s reporting drops off drastically. I suspect this is caused by men not categorizing what happened to them in this way, in large part because they get told again and again that it doesn’t count, that they were lucky, or similar until eventually they believe it.
Under-reported probably does not begin to capture it. I doubt 99.999% of instances of women hitting their man have ever been reported in human history, speaking from experience mostly due to pride.
Its a total double standard, as is almost everything with women. There I said it.
Rather than plain mysogyny, men and anti DV movements which men are part of should engage in their conception of pride, seeking help, admitting you can be a victim too and listening to other males victims. And if course when they want it legal action.
If you wish to solve the issue, that’s the main way to go.
If you want to promote a conservative backlash about feminism and spread basic misogynistic views, you’re on the right track though.
I’ve been working with movements and research efforts to make men more aware about reporting victimhood and seeking mental health help for years. I won’t prove it because it would likely make my identity public, which I’m not comfortable doing here. Guess what ? I’m working with more feminist actors than you can imagine in your little echo chamber.
Also : “immensely under-reported”, if that suits you better. But considering your visible agenda, I doubt it will.
Ha! #2 is wrong because you said extant instead of extent. I’ve got you now, sensible internet stranger! 🤓🤓🤓
Damn. I’ve been exposed!
100% on all points
I have been abused by both my mom and my partners. They took advantage of my insecurities, because of their insecurities. No one ever acknowledged it until recently. I have no trust in ever getting a relationship with someone who treats me equally. According to my therapists, I responded by turning into myself instead of developing a personality disorder. Apparently I’m too sweet.
I don’t know that turning onward is a bad idea. It can be, if we get terrified and refuse to go deeper. What I mean is, grief work and rage work and all the icky stuff is necessary, as are breaks from the heaviness. Be gentle with yourself, friend.
I have a friend who I haven’t been able to hang out with for several years because his wife is insane and posessive, and he’s decided to just ride it out until the kids are all 18 so he can divorce her without having to pay her child support.
He’ll still support his children, but he’ll do it directly instead of through her.
It’s me, your buddy - well maybe not your exact buddy but a dude living in this same scenario.
Please hang out when that last kid turns 18 and we are free. It’s horribly lonely and there is no one to help. Getting a divorce just means she gets everything including all the time in the world to manipulate the kids.
You don’t happen to be an electrician and a central-Texas scuba enthusiast?
Close. Power grid engineer in the Midwest.
Wow, think of the example he’s setting. If his kids were in that marriage, would he recommend waiting for 1/5 of their life to go by with a horrible person? How will his kids even know how to have a loving relationship if his parents are that fucked up?
He’s a coward who cares more about money than about being a good person or dad.
And that’s most men in these relationships. Men would rather cheat and lie than be honest and extend basic respect and communication to their partners. And then get upset when women finally initiate divorce for the broken shitty relationship.
I just told a care provider recently that I’ve no idea if I’m capable of a healthy relationship, because I don’t even know what one looks like from the outside, let alone from the inside. I’m nearly 60.
A parents obligation to their children is more nuanced than your implying, setting an example isn’t the only factor. Not to mention abuse is used to break your will to stand up for yourself, and even if that weren’t a factor, communication isn’t possible with people unwilling to listen.
Relationships are a two way street, but when you’ve got kids., it’s not just about the relationship with your partner anymore
He stated that he wanted control of finances as his main motivator, not abuse.
Yes, the best way to teach your kids how to handle abuse is by being a role model. Sometimes that means leaving the abusive parent and making a safe place away from the abusive parent. How can an 18 year old learn the skill of leaving their abusive parent if it was never modeled to them and the nonabusive parent stuck by them no matter what?
you have issues, please go see a therapist
Wow, this is so insulting and dismissive… and also the fucking point too. Putting children through a horrible relationship is how (one method of many) people grow up to have issues. Saying someone has issues while also saying their opinion on the subject of putting children through hell is invalid because of that is ignorant at best, and at worst purposefully harmful and manipulative.
I am allowed to have issues. Ya know, Corey Feldman and Aaron Carter and others had issues, and they were fucking right.
You’re being down voted, but I mostly agree with you. Putting your kids through the issues of your failing relationship isn’t doing them any good either. There’s no good answer, but staying for your children is often putting them through even more trauma than the divorce would.
My child seems to be in a reasonably healthy relationship. It’s a wonder since I put them through a few bad ones, but I eventually left. They’ve been in a stable relationship for five years. I don’t pry much and I pray they aren’t staying because they feel they’d flounder, otherwise. Their partner is a good person, in not implying they aren’t. Compatibility is a thing, common interests are necessary.
Yeah, it’s possible for sure. I know I for one have issues caused by my parents constant arguing and issues (and they somehow aren’t divorced, though I believe that should be). Sometimes people go through hell and come out better for it, but I don’t think we should expect that.
Oh I’m amazed. They’re truly accomplishing the Great Work.
Yes, because if the nonabusive parent can find a nonabusive partner, that gives a kid a chance with a true loving home and a way to learn prosocial behaviors and how to have a truly respectful and loving relationship. You can’t change that they have an abusive parent, but you can help them learn how to not accept that abuse and not perpetuate it.
Like if I leave my husband who hit me, I’m showing my daughter to do that if her boyfriend ever hits her. If I stay, I’m just teaching her to endure abuse. It’s the same if Dad does it, too - he’s a role model as well. And further, this excuse is the exact one men DM me before asking to cheat on their wives (‘shes crazy and im just staying for the kids’) so I frankly have zero tolerance for it. Grow a backbone and some morals and get a divorce. You’re not helping your kids, you’re helping yourself.
Strumming my pain with her fingers, singng my life with her words…
My ex-wife was arrested for slapping me and breaking my glasses.
Like many other victims of abuse, I stayed married for several more years. Been away from that nutjob since 2009.
This reminds me of the Heard v Depp case, on the two X chromosomes subreddit there was this long ass comment from someone who experienced abuse and said she wasn’t the “perfect victim” because she fought back and hurt her abuser back and how because of this it was harder to get away from her abuser.
And when I asked how does she know that in Heard v Depp case it isn’t Depp who is the imperfect victim? Because he had multiple partners testifying to his character of being a kind man etc, while Heard had the opposite (AFAIK).
All I got was silence and downvotes.
And the men’s lib sub is the best we will get when it comes to men’s issues and that one sucks too.
The mens rights sub originally was a good place for dudes who were getting taken to the cleaners in divorce court, losing full custody of the kids just because the mom wanted em, and even an instance iirc of the wife taking the dog only to have em put down later.
Then it slowly mutated into a watered down version of incels
I mean that’s bound to happen. If the main thing that draws you to a space is that you’re all being abused by women in one way or another, then it’s probably going to end up being a place to hate on women and therefore attract women haters like incels.
Men’s lib should be a space where we fight the injustices imposed on men by the dominant hierarchy. Like the fact that we’re assumed to be worse at caring for our kids than their mothers and that this assumption disadvantages us in court. Or the fact we’re assumed to be abusers and that being a victim somehow makes us be seen as lesser men and automatically deserving of the abuse we get (like in this comic). Or the fact that we’re assumed to BE/BE PART OF the dominant hierarchy and therefore can’t be victims of it, even though we can lose our “manlyness” through something as simple or human as crying when we’re sad.
Only with this mindset can we channel our victimisation into positive action rather than towards hatred of women.
Hive minds are strong remember to not rate your opinion based on how many up votes it gets
what then am i supposed to rate it on? /hj
Have you heard of battered woman syndrome? Do you understand the court case that lead to it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francine_Hughes
The reason is that most men are physically stronger than most women and also we live in a heteropatriarchy that caters to men first. There was clearly mutual abuse by both partners, and both Amber and Johnny are raging narcissists- but Johnny has a bad past too, including a questionable relationship with Winona Ryder when she was young and extreme drug use that made him erratic. It’s impossible to know who was abusing who or what was actually happening.
But I will say the leading expert on domestic violence, Lundy Bancroft, asserts that women are almost never the abuse initiator in relationships. Most serial killers, most violent offenders, are men. So yeah, women will typically blame the man because it’s usually men.
I don’t usually comment in these types of gender discussions, so I don’t really know why I am commenting this. I hope you don’t take me badly.
You say that we live in a society that caters to men first, which I unfortunately agree in general, adding later that, due to the usual prepertrators of the hideous crimes you listed being men (which I also agree), women usually jump to the conclusion that the man is the abuser. Knowing that, couldn’t it be said that in this specific situation society caters to women rather than men? After all, you can’t say “most abusers are men, therefore this abuser is a man.” Each person is an individual. From a purely mathematical perspective, it indeed makes sense to suspect the man first, but that being the case, wouldn’t bringing up that first point be:
a. True, but in matters unrelated to the discussion? b. Contradicting what you say in the end?
And therein lies my question to you. I am not that informed in these gender-related affairs and I am sorry if anything I said was wrong/insensitive, but I still ask this question, for no reason other than probably being sleepy. Thank you, and I apologize if I misunderstood anything. I did not watch the show that was mentioned, I really just wanted to ask about that specific part.
No, society still caters to men. Who are the ones responding to domestic violence calls - other men, the police, who also engage in these same crimes.
I had an ex throw me to the ground and lock me outside in the rainin my pajamas. When I called 911, the police came, and I was crying and bleeding under my pajamas from the fall. The officer immediately threatened to arrest me, saying women fake it all the time, and if he found any marks on him or if his story was different, I would go to jail. I was 19. I hadn’t touched him, he had just exploded in a rage because we broke up and couldn’t agree about moving out. It didn’t even occur to me that I wouldn’t get help and also might be hurt. I declined having him arrested while I actively bled from what he did, I didn’t show the police the marks, and then i became $2k in debt because I wanted to do anything to break the lease (and could’ve done if for free had he been arrested).
Society doesn’t help abuse victims of any gender. The people who enforce the laws are abusers. Lawyers are often abusers. Judges are typically men who make up abusers. Look at the judges Trump put in place and imagine women trying to justify their abortion from their rapes to them. Like yes the patriarchy is systemic AGAINST WOMEN in this way. Intersectionality exists, and does not erase this real fact
Thank you for your answer. I see your point. I was thinking more about the specific situation described in the comic, and not one where it had already escalated to the point where police and the justice system got involved, and I have to wonder what kind of life the cop lived through to reach the conclusion that “women fake it all the time.” But even worse than there being cops like this is the fact that even if it came to light that they were like this there is a high chance they would not be punished at all.
Case in question, in my country, a cop fatally shot a guy because he “looked like he had a knife.” That’s already disgusting enough, but as far as I know, he wasn’t going to be punished until big protest erupted. It’s a sistematic issue, and unfortunately, there’s not much we can do aside from voting.
With trump being elected, this issue is sure to become even worse. And since trump seems to be specifically against women’s freedom, it will probably get even harder for women to defend themselves and bring the perpetrator to justice.
But I sincerely hope that a situation like that doesn’t happen again, to you or anyone you know. Good luck in the future, and stay safe.
As a sidenote, and don’t answer if you don’t want to, why did you decline his arrest? Was there any chance that could turn against you?
Woah stop making men feel safe and seen. Next thing they’ll become feminists, or worse, empathetic and caring humans!
I actually spoke with some who said talking about problems specific to men, is somehow anti feminist, because it puts men into a victim role.
“Feminists” that base their feminism on pure misandry are counterproductive to the movement
Thanks, Mr. Blobfish! That’s funny, I don’t recall taking Ambien…
abusers are trash, no matter what their gender. May they all rot.
Really applies to most things. I’m not a dude, trans woman, but I’ve gotten sexually harassed a lot both pre and post transition and the response I got pre and post transition is night and day. Pretransition people treated me like I was crazy for feeling unsafe and like I was supposed to enjoy it.
Honestly, men should be allowed to feel unsafe around women, or really allowed to feel unsafe in general, and be taken seriously for it.I’m a guy.
I’ve been sexually assaulted multiple times in my life by both genders. The last time was at the hands of a boyfriend who made me no longer want to be Bi. I haven’t been with another guy since and only date female now.
Honestly the response has never been in my favor. At the hands women it was ignored or blamed on me and by men I was told that I should have enjoyed it more. I’ve been belittled for not being gay enough to take being assaulted in public. And told I was being a problem for having it done to me in a work setting with apologies made for the perpetrator and then myself sent away.
I never get to feel unsafe and I never have gotten to feel seen for it. Not by other men. Not by the LGBTQ community, not by women, not even by doctors. It’s devastating and yet there apparently is no right time to ever bring it forward. It’s horrible that it feels we have specific socially acceptable ways to be traumatized and most of them are against men. And yet the loudest resistance feels like from the people being hypocrites cause it makes for an easier narrative.
I don’t like people anymore.
I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to type all that. I’m sorry.
No need to apologize. Glad you shared. Never apologize for getting something off your chest.
I’m sorry no one treated your abuse seriously.
Thank you.
I’m sorry I kinda had a panic attack after I sent that.
Thank you again.
One downfall of what I only hesitantly refer to as modern feminism (although really I’m talking about terfs and the terf-adjacent) is that it has painted men as dangerous by default. I’m also a trans woman so I’ve seen both sides of the coin, too… I do feel less safe now, this is true. Many things were easier when I was living as a man. But I was never dangerous or an abuser.
Nonetheless, a former partner used accusations of abuse against me and turned so many people on me. The only ones that stuck by me were former romantic partners, who knew the accusations couldn’t have been true. For everyone else, it was so easy to accept that a man - even a clearly gentle one - would be an abuser.
In reality I’ve been a victim of abuse - physical, emotional, sexual… All long before I transitioned.
Im so sorry for you,hope you are better now ❤️
I’m a guy and I have a cnc/rape kink (want to be ) but if a girl try to do it for real I would kick her ass no matter how pretty she would be. If you start thinking with your brain I don’t understand how a guy could enjoy someone that toxic and disgusting.
This will keep happening as long as the left treats any acknowledgement of mens issues as a moral failing
What left is doing that?
How? By refusing to accept that female on male abuse is a thing. Go find a mainstream leftist place and bring it up. See what happens
That’s truly a joke.
It is my current understanding, from various experiences - and I want to state that I publicly engage with men and women who’ve had violent experiences in various ways on a regular basis - that men are FAR more likely to be supported when facing domestic violence by the left, the very same woke/feminist left.
The right? They don’t give a flying f*ck. As always. The incels and their variants? They don’t care. They’re in a political crusade against social justice.
So where are the men’s shelters? Why is female on male abuse considered funny? And I don’t care what conservatives think
Who considers female on male abuse funny? I have yet too see any feminist, any worker in a shelter, any of those, find any kind of domestic violence funny.
I’m not talking about Xitter pen keyboard heroes here. I mean real people.
Who’s laughing at violence against men?
Taters, conservatives, and their kind, high representatives of the most toxic masculinity.
You clearly can’t begin to fathom what’s it’s like for people who experienced violence and domestic violence. I’ve never seen a female survivor not listening to a male survivor. I’ve never seen a left wing feminist working with female survivors not taking a male survivor seriously.
Actually, from my experience, which, I think, is significant at least in my country and generation, they’re literally the ONLY ONES who take them seriously (except some of their close ones, friends and family, of course - not all will, but some may).
Look through this thread. Look at the people bitching about the comic. But please keep telling me how much kinder and better women are.
We’re in one right now and that isn’t happening.
Whew that was quick https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/14541652
Lemmy isn’t mainstream. Most people, even the terminally online don’t know it exists
I’m skeptical that there exists any leftist mainstream place that isn’t actually a right-wing place disguised as leftist.
I’m also skeptical that all of those loud but irrational voices are genuine. Especially given Russia’s MO for online trolling where they push both sides of any issue to extremes to sow division. Not to say that I believe everyone on the left is rational and reasonable. But why would the tone be so different between “mainstream” and “non-mainstream” left places if the position you’re talking about is as ubiquitous to the left as you claim it is?
Looking at how many people are angry about this ki da proves your point.
It’s not a “thing” compared to male on female abuse which is significantly more pervasive and takes up more attention. Its obviously a thing in that it happens. Most women would rather focus on reducing male violence which typically will benefit male survivors. Just like how structures that help women sexual assault survivors also tend to help the few male survivors and so we don’t per se need to explicitly help the smaller male demographic, since they are included and the larger female demographic still hasn’t been served either.
We just don’t care to hear you sealion about these abuse victims when you do nothing for EITHER demographic and instead use male victims to deny help for women and thus men. It’s not about giving men help, it’s about being a vulnerable narcissist and making women a bad guy.
This shit right here is what I am talking about.
Lol
You are a cancer to liberal causes.
You are a problematic man.
I dont think he is problematic .it seem pretty correct that the left doesn’t offer solution to men actually.
I’ve seen some good folks in the past few years. Like That Dang Dad and F.D Signifier. But I’m just on YouTube. I’m sure I miss lots of hate.
F.D is great actually. Need more like him.
deleted by creator
Thanks for posting this! Being male and being abused is a very isolating experience on many levels. I wish good things upon you, friend.
Hope you are better now 🫂🫂
🫂
I am hoping for better things and healthier relationships in your future
But the only place men have to go to is an imaginary fish thing.
You leave blobby alone. He is trying his best.
Poor thing’s been ripped from its habitat into this cruel low pressure environment .
Return all the Alarmos to the sea from whence they came.
Blobfish are real
Unfortunately the image of them around the internet and educational book aren’t. Those are what left of them after getting drag into the atmosphere they’re not used to in high speed. It’s like showing a decayed corpse of human and say “this is what human actually looks like”.
And the fish in the comic wasn’t at the bottom of the ocean.
What would the man have looked like at the bottom of the ocean? Maybe more like that decayed corpse?
By that logic maybe we should only draw dinosaur as bone because we never seen them in their prime.
No, by that logic you should draw dinosaur as bone if they are in a situation where their flesh is gone.
Well, yes, you should draw dinosaur bone if your intention is to draw dinosaur bone.
So what you’re saying is that the natural habitat of Roger Ailes was the bottom of the sea? I agree, but for different reasons 😉
