- cross-posted to:
- politics@beehaw.org
- electoralism@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- politics@beehaw.org
- electoralism@hexbear.net
Summary
Historians suggest Democrats might have fared better against Donald Trump by embracing the economic issues championed by Senator Bernie Sanders, who has long pushed for a focus on “bread-and-butter” concerns for working-class voters.
Despite Kamala Harris’s progressive policies, polls showed Trump was favored on economic issues, particularly among working-class and Hispanic voters.
Historian Leah Wright Rigueur argued that Sanders’ messaging on economic struggles could be key for future Democratic strategies.
Sanders himself criticized the party for “abandoning” the working class, which he said has led to a loss of support across racial lines.
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His message hasn’t changed. They don’t only not listen, but actively oppose his message.
Huh, they spelled elected wrong.
Fucking Hillary Clinton, are you kidding me.
It is absolutely clear now. The DNC is a private company whose main function is to fund raise, period. If they also win an election then that’s great, but if it comes to a choice between winning and raising money, they will choose raising money. They will never move to the left to win voters if it will cost them fund raising opportunities from the center and right.
And the rich.
Imo, you’ve got all the prices. However, I would put them in a different order.
Short answer: Republican or Democrat, the candidate that spends the most wins. Therefore, fund raising is winning.
There’s a small group of king-makers in the US and the candidate who offers them the most becomes president. Recently, the people who decide who gets to be president has started to include social media companies and amazon, who hosts half the Internet. Trump also cozied up to the American owner of the company the owns tiktok. Thats how he won. Trumps also great for social media engagement and news channel views.
Even candidates who happen to be better than the republican candidate, no democratic hopeful worth being of “the left” will ever be given enough money to become the president of America. Even if they started from a position that would appeal to them, they would have to compromise on everything that made them that in order to be allowed anywhere near the Whitehouse by the American ultra wealthy.
What you’re seeing isn’t the failure of the Democrats to correctly triangulate but the strength of the American ultra wealthy consent manufacturing machine.
This honestly makes so much more sense than anything else. I think you nailed it. Republicans are motivated by money and exerting social control so they write up manifestos (p2025), take over the courts, work hard to disenfranchise voters, lie, cheat, anything is on the table. The DNC does indeed seem fairly comfortable with losing by comparison, despite the fact that the leftist ideals they supposedly dabble in create a moral imperative to never lose. I wonder if Republicans fucking pay the DNC money to run these candidates we all know aren’t the best. They’re just good enough to get votes against mother fucking Trump. But not always good enough to win, barely good enough when they are, typically.
It’s downright sad that I can’t think of any argument against this.
I’m not thrilled with the DNC either, but I’m not buying this whole idea that they are shooting themselves in the foot on purpose. The DNC does better when they win elections.
In previous elections, the candidate that raised the most money was more likely to win. Also, a moderate Democrat won the last election. They made the decisions they made in this election cycle because they thought it was their best chance of winning.
I don’t have access to the data that they have to determine whether the leftist that Lemmy wants on the ticket could actually win the general.
I’d certainly like to believe that it’s just that simple and all the DNC needs to do is put up a pro-Palestine Democratic Socialist and the election is in the bag… I just don’t know if that’s the reality on the ground. If that is not the reality on the ground, are the leftists that stayed home still committed to their protest? Or is there a point at which they would admit that we haven’t had a true leftist on the ticket because a true leftist is not viable?
I hope someone can put together some clear data to answer that question soon… I’m afraid that a pro-Palestine Socialist will get crushed by AIPAC funded attack ads about Marxism and supporting terrorism that will really stick with moderates, and that no matter how energized the base is it wouldn’t be enough to win the general.
I am not saying that they are losing on purpose. I’m saying that they are making decisions about policies and candidates based on fund raising rather than on attracting voters. On purpose or not, they did shoot themselves in the foot by courting disaffected Republican voters. Everyone knew they were not going to win a lot of those voters, but they sure did rake in a lot of dough. I believe that is their primary motivation.
I mean the Republicans are doing the same. Lining their pockets as they make decisions. Why is it so foreign to do with one costume rather than the other?
Bernie is a leftist politician. The Democrat party is not a liberal leftist party, they’re a conservative corporatist party.
I’ve been saying that since the DNC fucked him over in the 2016 election. I voted for Biden, then Harris, but I never fucking forgot who’s to blame for the state of things now.
Berine had the biggest grassroots campaign I’ve seen in my time alive, bigger than Obama, more individual donations than any candidate ever.
But the DNC knew if they ran a real progressive it would threaten their corrupt racket
I never gave to a politician before Bernie Sanders. I wanted to see him win so bad.
Dems imbraced the race to the bottom instead of being a true opposition party. I voted for them this time around but never again unless they make a platform surrounding core left prencipals and left leadership. Many within my communities gave up on political means to help their communities and threw themselves into volunteering, activism, and self sustainability. You can’t demand bottomless support and obedience from your base while ignoring their cries for help.
Dems said they are the party of science and facts but wouldn’t support universal health care or simply stop sending weapons to Isreal. If they were just as ravenous as republican are, can you honestly say we couldn’t achieve those good things?
Dems said the Supreme court and justice system was courupt, but never even investigated the court or made cuts to the militarization of the police forces. Police are still killing people at the same rates with no real accountability. If the Supreme Court was left leaning Republicans would have expanded the court to make it right leaning.
Just do what Republicans do to get there way but for good. I honestly can’t think of one dem policy that has been as impactful as some of the top Republican changes in the past 50 years.
Ultimately we need to come together and demand better because if the dems don’t change it’ll be 50 more years of being steamrolled.
Honestly, your democratic party is very right wing to most of European. And you saying people give up on politics and turn to sctivism is so sad.
If the government doesn’t take care of his poor, minorities, what are they doing.
If the government doesn’t take care of his poor, minorities, what are they doing.
Facilitating the transfer of wealth to the richest fraction of the population.
If the government doesn’t take care of his poor, minorities, what are they doing.
Grifting and insider trading.
Thats what they get for squeezing Bernie out and giving the people garbage candidates. Eat it, you fools.
More voters should have listened to Bernie.
He told people what to do.
He told everyone to vote for Dems, instead of make a legitimate opposition to the right
God i’ll never forget where i was when he dropped out. I had phone banked and donated and I was watching his concession speech just…wrecked maaan, wrecked at how the DNC et al had ratfucked him and how tilted the game was… and while I’m saltin my booze with tears someone in the group asks him “What do we do now?” and he says something like
“Vote Dem, vote in your primaries”
and my heart fell in that shitty whiskey with the rest. Maaaan, i never knew i still had faith to lose until that moment.
It is not the voters job to embrace a progressive modern platform nor is it their job to get themselves energized over said policies
But both parties have shoved that false belief down voters throats that is the voters’ faults when they fail to deliver
In a democracy, it sure as Hell is the voters’ job to do all that. And more, for that matter.
In fact, the voters should be controlling the parties (if not abolishing them entirely), not the other way around!
No no no, the Democratic Party is some magical uncontrollable entity, we must abandon it, making progressive change infinitely more difficult.
/s if it wasn’t obvious. Banana is a bad faith agitator. They desired a GOP victory.
Not sure exactly the point you’re trying to make, but you’re half right. It is a politicians job to convince voters to support their policies, that’s true, but it’s also equally true that voters should support good policies. While it’s not their “job” to do so, they still suffer the consequences for failing to do so all the same. No matter how you slice it, people were stupid to not listen to Bernie all this time.
It was the DNC’s job to be clear about Bernie’s message. I voted for him in the 2016 primary even though I was bombarded with “radical socialist regressive left” Bernie articles in my social media feeds at the time.
Unfortunately, most Americans don’t actively seek out information and just accept the picture painted by the news that’s fed to them.
It was the DNC’s job to be clear about Bernie’s message.
LOL the DNC has actively fought against Bernie’s message.
This is a systematic failure. Non-Harris voters are definitely at fault, but so is the DNC for moving further right and abandoning progressives and for sitting on their ass for 4 years.
Democracy is participatory. If it isn’t your job, you can’t complain when it isn’t done to your liking.
Enjoy having Trump. I really don’t have any more words for people like you.
In hindsight it seems obvious, but to be honest I really thought Kamala would have fared better.
To me the main takeaway is that I live in a completely separate reality from most voters. I would have voted on a dead dog over Trump. He is mean, narcissistic and never shows any empathy. On top of that he is clearly losing his wits. If a majority of voters prefers a candidate like this, is even enthusiastic to vote for him, what can you do?
I also know that Lemmy skews left, but I think we have to face the fact that most voters have no ability to empathise with those worse off. There is no left wing politics without empathy and solidarity. What most of us here want is dead.
Is the majority enthusiastic to vote for him? His own campaigning rallies were a snorefest, as far as we saw.
For me the main “a-ha” here is that so many people apparently still believe his stupid story that he is a guy who makes deals to fix the economy. Instead of a con-man. I have no idea why democrats were not able to destroy this “economic leader” image that he has built. Or why Harris and Walz did not focus on the issue every poll in the last month did say was the most important one: the economic situation.
I think social media has put everyone in their own eco chamber.
This is true to an extent. Social media made it much easier to spread misinformation that allowed for the total shattering of consensus reality. Which had been under intense duress for the better part of a century anyways
We all did, you’re not wrong.
It’s a sad reality we all woke up to on Wednesday. Learning that the majority of Americans are ignorant, racist, misogynistic, selfish assholes.
When you mean “all”, I wonder who you group in that conception.
Not all of us believed Kamala would win. A good group of people were calling out Kamala’s shit since the DNC, and everything since. With the direction of the campaign, you had a good chance to predict Kamala’s underperformance.
Let’s not kid ourselves here.
We all did
No, we did not “all” think so, a lot of us have been saying this for quite a while. In fact since at least the 2016 election cycle started in 2015.
Pretty much lmao
This is what many said in 2016 after Clinton lost but we still did it again in 2020 and yet again in 2024. If I were a betting man I’d say that if there’s sill an election worth having in 2028 we’ll see another, even further right leaning, centrist Democrat win the nomination.
Yoyo look, this guy’s fucking nostradamus up in here, right? It’s gonna happen just like this.
I’m thinking newsome is the “perfect” candidate for 28.
Whoever it is, I bet you, just like me can’t wait to be told how stupid i am and actually great they are by credulous online political minds who call parroting the pundits talking points word-for-word fucking theory
Progressives need to start picking a single nominee to get behind right now. Or we’re getting whichever candidate the establishment wing of the party has already selected. Maybe they’ll run Liz Cheney.
Lol i bet in 4 years we’ll be beggin’ for a moderate Dem like Cheney
And Democrats will run her if they think they can get away with it.
We tried. Biden’s Build Back Better bill had a lot of pro-working class stuff in it. We just couldn’t pass it with Manchin and Sinema resisting.
Details are important.
Yeah, and maybe if progressive voters showed up en Masse we wouldn’t have had to rely on those two. Imagine that progressives. Imagine that…
This is about messaging, not policy. Most people don’t really pay attention to actual policy, so it’s more about convincing your average Joe you’re working for them. Bernie had that, Biden and Harris didn’t.
Well put.
I think the inherent problem with the build back better deal is it’s still framed within the neoliberal trickle down economics of post Regan America.
Would it have increased some workers protections and child care, sure. But it would ultimately be a gift to the shareholders and owners of corporations able to tap into the 3 trillion dollars of funding.
Americans are tired of progressive bills that vicariously improve their lives by further bribing the economic class that actually have their boots on our necks.
People are tired of seeing headlines that the American economy is doing fine while they struggle to put food on the table. Nobody cares if your bosses retirement portfolio is breaking records when they have to pull overtime to maintain the same quality of life they had 20 years ago.
Funny when it was the more neoliberal, pro-business dems that shot it down, shortly before leaving the democratic party. There’s really not a whole lot of corporate profits to be found in here, though, despite the rampant misinformation floating around online. It actually raised corporate taxes, which is not a neoliberal policy position:
Yeah, they split it into two bills, one with all the stuff that was intended to pass, and the one with all the stuff they ran on that they never intended to pass.
Funny how it still almost passed, then. Unless you’re proposing a grand conspiracy where they all actually secretly were lying about their intentions. Such a conspiracy theory would be a strong claim, and those require evidence. Perhaps in the thousands of individual staffers and advisors to each member of congress you could find a whistleblower indicating such a conspiracy? Otherwise it’d have to be as airtight as Jewish Space Lasers.
Funny how it still almost passed, then.
It was never in any danger of passing. Centrists had Manchin.
This sounds like conspiracy again, where this was all orchestrated. You can believe whatever you want, that’s part of living in the free world. But to actually be something worth considering, there should be evidence of this orchestration that can be found among the thousands of people that would’ve had to have been involved. Has AOC or Bernie or any of their staffers spoken of any orchestration?
There doesn’t need to be orchestration.
Funny when it was the more neoliberal, pro-business dems that shot it down, shortly before leaving the democratic party.
Shot it down? The bill passed in 2022 after being modified to hell by special interest.
There’s really not a whole lot of corporate profits to be found in here, though
If it’s not going to be implemented directly by the state it means that it’s going to be implemented by private businesses. Those private business owners are going to walk away with the lion’s share of any money they accept from the government.
It actually raised corporate taxes, which is not a neoliberal policy position:
It’s almost like corporations aren’t a monolith of mutual aid and support. You don’t think Raytheon wouldn’t support raising some taxes if it meant they could funnel a ton of government funding towards the privatized military industrial sector?
No, that is a false claim. It was not passed by the Senate and never became law. We can certainly criticize our neoliberal factions, but we should do it factually instead of weaving whatever narratives we find most convenient. Unless you’re confusing it with the Infrastructure bill, which did pass. They were linked at one time, but were separated after both failing became likely.
My dude… The inflation reduction act is an amended version of the build back better deal. What are you talking about?
On July 27, Manchin and Schumer announced the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022, the final result of these negotiations, surprising other congressional Democrats.[192] The bill, which includes provisions on tax, health care, and climate and energy spending, was introduced in the Senate as an amendment to the Build Back Better Act. On August 7, the Senate passed the bill on a 50–50 vote with Vice President Harris breaking the tie.[193] On August 12, 2022, the House passed the bill on a 220–207 vote.[194] President Biden signed it into law on August 16.[195]
Fine, technically true I suppose. But when you gut something that comprehensively and change its thrust, I think it’s a little disingenuous to call it the same thing. It had all the workers rights stuff stripped out of it.
edit: Disingenuous on the bill author’s part, not yours. Though tbf, they did rename it.
Tbf I did say it was passed after being modified to hell by special interest.
We just couldn’t pass it with Manchin and Sinema resisting.
There are always enough Manchins.
Yep. That excuse does not fly.
The screams of “Dems need to move right” (not from Bernie, obv) are fucking clown shoes and hilarious. She was running around with Liz and Dick Motherfucking Cheney. There’s no more right to move to without literally just embracing Trump.
But here’s the thing: libs keep cutting their noses off. Why would the actual left give the DNC the fucking time of day? They raise a billion fucking dollars, light it all on fire and go out to brunch. They co-opt movements like the Floyd uprising and metoo but leave everyone else to do the actual work. When we need bodies in the streets, when we need material support, when we fucking TELL THEM WHAT POLICIES WILL WORK FOR US, they spout some 1950s realpolitik bullshit and have some more wine.
Biden: you’re immune. Have some fun with it. Show us you have skin I the game. $100 says he keeps up this “when they go low we go high” bullshit and does somewhere between nothing and the bare minimum.
I mean, why would the DNC give he left the time of day?
Passed biggest climate bill, forgave most student loans in history, rescheduled weed, etc. And yet? It’s never good enough nor enough to give them a chance to do more.
All with a threadbare Senate majority with two “independent” dems and only two years of a house majority.
They raise a billion fucking dollars, light it all on fire and go out to brunch.
This is the most infuriating part, and it made me happy I kept replying STOP to all their fucking “ZOMG 10X MATCHING” texts. They blew all that money and their political consultant cronies made out like bandits. They outraised and outspent Trump and have fuck all to show for it.
Not only that,they’re still sending them to help with recounting.
were on our knees to stop trump, by only fund raising not doing anything to actually deal with the issues
Biden: you’re immune. Have some fun with it. Show us you have skin I the game
You may not remember, but it’s only been a few months since Biden said he “wouldn’t really care if trump won as long as he tried his best”.
He literally doesn’t have any skin in the game, the party leaders don’t really give a fuck.
Not only did he say that, he thought it helped show he could continue running after shitting the debate.
The real proof in the pudding is the way the greens took such a large percentage of the elecetoral college vote so obviously to recapture all that the dems need to move left. The people have shown their power.
TIL I’m a fucking historian, apparantly
It’s amazing how much shit is obvious if one pays attention to the big picture and follow the current trends towards their natural conclusions
This shit really was obvious all along, and I don’t even live in the US
That’s great analysis except for one detail… what progressive policies?! Like ceding the “border issue” to the republicans? Like backpedaling on fracking when they needed votes from PA? I voted for her because she was the only option but in no universe was her campaign progressive.
I think they mean that her running mate did some progressive stuff as governor. Or maybe we’re just so far right now that referring to LGBT as if they’re human beings counts as being progressive
The build back better bill had Republicans calling fixing roads instead of letting them collapse progressive. The ‘middle’ point on infrastructure seems to be ‘let some roads and buildings collapse’ like that apartment building in Florida. Roads are something even libertarians want the government to do. It literally doesn’t matter what dems say, Republicans will have the media calling it progressive to demonize it.
I recently tried to explain to Lemmy that non-white working class voters see their social program as weird and off putting. I was downvoted to oblivion just for honestly relating an opinion from people these chronically online “allies” would never hear from, because they simply don’t associate with seamstresses/fruit packers/construction site crossing guards etc. Not to mention the majority of these folks can’t speak any language but English.
Tell my Chilean wife how she is going to make more money tomorrow than she did today and she will listen. Tell her she is a bigot because she believes that it takes more than “feeling like” a women to actually “be” a woman and she will stop listening. That is what just happened here.
I am from a different cultural context than her and I tend to believe what the people who study these issues have to say ie: gender affirming care saves lives. But to say that this one issue determines a persons entry or exclusion from our ever shrinking tent is political suicide, no matter how much we might wish that wasn’t the case.
WHAT SOCIAL PROGRAM?? The Democrats didn’t run on any of this woke mind virus bullshit you’re complaining about. Trans people were the target of choice for the conservatives despite being basically a miniscule sliver of the population and Democrats just mumbled some generic pablum about privacy and compassion before changing the topic as quickly as possible. In no remote sense was “trans rights” a purity test for the Democrats, as clearly evidenced by all the fucking Republicans involved in the campaign.
This is just divorced from reality, and maybe that’s the real sentiment you two have landed on, but it’s not because the Democrats did anything to foster it.
Shame the Democrats just told Bernie he is wrong. Again.
